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Current time: March 28, 2024, 8:13 pm

Poll: Have you ever read the Bible?
This poll is closed.
Never
1.61%
1 1.61%
Bits and Pieces
27.42%
17 27.42%
Most of it
24.19%
15 24.19%
I have read the full bible
46.77%
29 46.77%
Total 62 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Enlighten Yourselves
#61
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
(March 17, 2015 at 4:09 am)Pizz-atheist Wrote:
(March 16, 2015 at 5:42 pm)abentwookie Wrote: Actually, you should read it if you debate Christians.
Why?

Well, it can be useful in debates about a wide variety of subjects. For example, if they argue that there can be no morality without the Bible, you can easily provide countless examples of extremely immoral acts in the book. This is after you show them how morality can and does exist in people who don't follow any holy books of course. Smile

I have seen atheists stumble in arguments due to their lack of knowledge about religious texts such as the Bible and Quran. It is essentially the same as some creationists talking about evolution while not even having a basic understanding of it. You have to know your subject well if you debate it.
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#62
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
Read it several times now. It's useful when debating Christians and identifying biblical references. I read it cover to cover for the first time just after explaining to my parents that I was atheist. The experience solidified that lack of belief.

I suggest Christians consider reading a good modern Jewish translation of the OT particularly those bits referred to in the NT. It's enlightening.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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#63
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
Never read it through but I've read bits and pieces that have been quoted in other works I've read. I was given one by my father but dozed off every time I tried to get into it. It didn't speak to me. I didn't like it. Not a page turner.
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#64
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
I've had some people tell me I need to get my nose back in the bible, and I just say reading the bible only solidifies my atheism. People are so accustomed to cherry picking, or listening to their pastors, that they don't realize a lot of what's in the bible.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#65
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
(March 8, 2015 at 3:38 am)warrior02 Wrote: All I ask of you guys here, is to read a bible. For me, the bible personally enlightened me and reinforces my religion. Instead of retaining your knowledge by what you hear from Christians, actually read the scriptures that the religion is based off of.


I have read the bible. Have you read the entire book? It amazes me that there are Christians with easy access to their own holy book who never read the thing
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#66
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
Quote:I was given one by my father but dozed off every time I tried to get into it. It didn't speak to me. I didn't like it. Not a page turner.

That made me laugh Big Grin There's a lot of truth in what you said. The fact that the supposed most important book out there is just so dreary and poorly written speaks volumes.
I spent the best part of my life believing in an imaginary system which could absolve me from imaginary sin and not only that, by believing in the imaginary deity and taking up the imaginary offer of an imaginary eternal life I was offered the chance to live in an imaginary world up in the sky when I died. And what did I have to do to have all of this? Simple, I gave up using my real brain in my real life in this real world. F*cked up or what?
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#67
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
(March 17, 2015 at 10:53 am)abentwookie Wrote: Well, it can be useful in debates about a wide variety of subjects. For example, if they argue that there can be no morality without the Bible, you can easily provide countless examples of extremely immoral acts in the book. ...

...at which point, they go into "when the Bible says... it really means..." and you get to listen to some fantastically obtuse interpretations, which may be so elaborate as to include a custom fanfic they've created, purely based on their imagination and ad hoc fallacious reasoning in order to work backward to their preconception that the Bible is good.

At this point, I'm guessing you don't accept their ridiculous interpretations, preferring to read what's actually on the page and favoring Occam's Razor ("the reason there SEEM to be contradictions is because there ARE contradictions and the reason there SEEM to be immoral things in the Bible is because there ARE immoral things in the Bible").

At which point they perform psychological projection and accuse you of reading the Bible with an agenda.

I've danced this dance many times.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#68
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
That's what I was thinking. I'm not going to grant them their Bible in a debate on moral philosophy. They will just smuggle question begging assumptions into their definition of morality if they're a divine command theorist.

I don't believe criticizing moral theories on the ground that they led to actions we would deem shocking and terrifying is a reliable way of learning anything about morality if it exists at all.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot

We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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#69
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
I think the bible is very relevant to modern day society. All those nice, soft, absorbent pages.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#70
RE: Enlighten Yourselves
(March 17, 2015 at 6:13 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:
(March 17, 2015 at 10:53 am)abentwookie Wrote: Well, it can be useful in debates about a wide variety of subjects. For example, if they argue that there can be no morality without the Bible, you can easily provide countless examples of extremely immoral acts in the book. ...

...at which point, they go into "when the Bible says... it really means..." and you get to listen to some fantastically obtuse interpretations, which may be so elaborate as to include a custom fanfic they've created, purely based on their imagination and ad hoc fallacious reasoning in order to work backward to their preconception that the Bible is good.

At this point, I'm guessing you don't accept their ridiculous interpretations, preferring to read what's actually on the page and favoring Occam's Razor ("the reason there SEEM to be contradictions is because there ARE contradictions and the reason there SEEM to be immoral things in the Bible is because there ARE immoral things in the Bible").

At which point they perform psychological projection and accuse you of reading the Bible with an agenda.

I've danced this dance many times.


Sure they will. However, some of these situations cannot be danced around, even by the most skilled biblical ballerinas. Tongue If you are discussing morality and bring up the fact that the Bible blatantly condones slavery, they will respond with, "no, it is indentured servitude!" and start talking about how it is different from traditional slavery. They will claim that the "servants" were free after seven years. Fortunately, this is easy to refute.

#1. Regardless of what type of slavery we are talking about, it is still the act of OWNING another human being. Ask them if they think owning another human under ANY circumstances is moral.

#2. Indentured Servitude was a form of slavery. They were property of the person who owned the contract, they could be beaten, they were not allowed to leave, they could be passed on to your children, etc...

#3. Servants were to be freed after seven years, this part is true. However, if only applied to male Israelite slaves. Slaves from other countries could be kept forever. Also, if the owner provided the Israelite slave with a wife, they could basically blackmail him into remaining permanently by holding his family hostage. Which brings us to the next point....

#4. The rule only applied to male slaves. Women were not freed after seven years. Women were also sold to be wives, which basically amounts to sex slavery.

#5. You could beat your slaves, as long as they didn't die within a few days.

#6. If they try to pull the "well, that is just the old testament!" there are few points you can make here but the most important is that the New Testament does not condemn slavery either. In fact, it specifically tells slaves to obey their masters in two different verses: Ephesians 6:5 and 1 Timothy 6:1-2.

No matter how skilled the person is at dancing around the issue, you really can't get past the first point so be sure to stay on them about that. Make them either say that owning a person in some situations is morally acceptable or it is not. If they give you the first answer then they are morally bankrupt. If they choose the latter then you have just made them admit that their perfect source of morality isn't so perfect after all.
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