Family of Mohammad in Quran - Proof Mohammad founded Islam!

[Mystic]

MysticKnight, I was addressing these points you raised in your initial post to this topic, the opening paragraph in fact:

"The theory that Mohammad didn't found the Quran asserts that rulers made up the religion for there interest. Those in power made the religion."

In particular the part where you said "those in power made the religion". You made a claim when you said "asserts that" and I am assessing that claim. I am saying that it's possible that people can create religions for gain and even if a religion isn't it doesn't matter. So I think my contribution deserves to be addressed.

The people who assert Mohammad didn't exist, say Ummayads made up the Quran and spread the religion. I showed that to be false. I wasn't arguing that Islam is true.

[ReptilianPeon]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It seems I may have wasted my time. However your closing sentence:
"So this is strong evidence that it was founded by either God or Mohammad!

Would imply that you are arguing that it's true because you come to that narrow conclusion. If the religion was founded by Muhammad than its still possible that he (alone?) did it for personal gain so my post can still be relevan (because that would be an argument against it being from Allah).

[WinterHold]

You see, MysticKnight this is the disaster :

In mutuwatir hadiths, the Prophet said he is leaving two weighty things Quran and his family and that two would not separate.

Who gave authority to Muslims, to base their faith on hadith ? we know that any Hadith is no more than a tale that was literally written after about 250 years from the prophet's death, this is the disaster. People would lie, and as the case of the bible, them lies would get mixed with the original text to produce a freak.
It produced 2 freaks in Islam and that is the Sunni faith & Shia faith.

Some Muslims even dared to pollute the Quran -as was the case with christians- with Hadith from the inside ; i.e printing the Quran with hadiths in one book.

As this is not the topic, I take the Quran being a holy book, since the author promised :

( 9 ) Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.
Al-Hijr

I actually think that there are no further evidences that this book wasn't forged. Actually, since the time of Mohammed peace be upon him, non-Muslims accused him with that, and the Quran says it :

( 4 ) And those who disbelieve say, "This [Qur'an] is not except a falsehood he invented, and another people assisted him in it." But they have committed an injustice and a lie.
( 5 ) And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."
( 6 ) Say, [O Muhammad], "It has been revealed by He who knows [every] secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful."
Al-Furqaan

It was always an objection, always there, always shall be, proving it wrong is neither my job nor yours, not even Mohammed's ; as Muslims I mean. Since Mohammed peace be upon him himself was commanded, that when people question it, to just say it was god who created it, and leaving it to the reader to decide.

Oh well, but that's my theory anyways. I do think, though, that without the Hadith being mixed up with the Quran or its interpretation, we would suffer less when it comes to such matters.

[pocaracas]

The religion was so poorly fitted for those in power that.... oh wait... those in power stayed in power from 644 to ~750 adn expanded like wildfire!! only to be thwarted by their own inability to sustain the conquered territory....
And those who came after kept the religion.... now there's a testimony to the success of the indoctrination imposed by the Umayyad.... do remember that the average life expectancy, at the time, was about 40 and 12~15 year old girls were usually mothers.

[Angrboda]

You realize that using the Koran to prove facts about the Koran is circular logic.

[Mystic]

You realize that using the Koran to prove facts about the Koran is circular logic.

No it's not. I use it to show it doesn't make sense Ummayads are the authors when that would mean they taught to follow the family of Mohammad as Divine Authorities and Guides while they opposed such a doctrine and prosecuted those who followed such a doctrine.

This theory that Ummayds wrote the Quran is thus a theory that is proven false, and it was already baseless to begin with.

[robvalue]

I could have told you that. Check it out.

Ummayds is an anagram of dummays

It's all in the wrist.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

If any of the religious figures existed as depicted in any of the various religious literature they were a waste of oxygen.