Is it a good idea to be an atheist?

[FatAndFaithless]

Why did God wait until you prayed for Michael's brother? Surely there were other people praying the man, why do you take credit for your prayer being the catalyst?

I take no credit - I knew when I hit the motorway on that day and at that exact moment that he was cured. That was the epiphany...I just knew it. There have been times when I have prayed and nothing happened and it frustrates me....But in that case it did. No doubt other people were praying for Michael - However the revelation/epiphany was revealed to me. Not in some audible voice or clear outward revelation....In my very soul I knew it! Also this is the first time since it happened (in 10 years) that I am revealing this supernatural event on a public forum. It is only for the benefit of this audience and I will take no credit....I cannot....I have no power to cure anybody. What I do know is that when you pray with a sincere heart that miracles do happen and if they don't I must be mature enough to accept that this too is God's will. May God bless you!

So you have a collection of data points, each time you've prayed for something, and you're saying that a significant portion of those data points are "misses", as in you did not get the result you were hoping for, but some other points (like this one involving your friend's brother) were "hits", as in you got the result you were hoping for.

What you're doing is textbook sharpshooter. You're counting the "hits" as evidence for God's will without providing a reason for the misses. All those times you prayed and nothing happened, why did nothing happen?

Is it because you didn't pray hard enough? Because you weren't sincere? Or was it because God already had a plan for the events, and you praying wouldn't change the plan he had for you (since God knows best)?

Did God intend to let the brother die originally, and only intervened at the behest of the people praying for him? What about the millions of other people that are genuinely and sincerely praying for their loved ones that will die anyway? How does God choose?

And, if God does have a plan for everything already, and we can't change it, then why bother praying?

[The Valkyrie]

The atheist Pope Matt Dillahunty was a christian for 25 years and was studying to become a minister.

Plenty of christians were dead serious about their belief but then lost it.

Why just christians? How come Muslims don't interest you? You can have a personal relationship with that other jesus guy, and Allan.

Ok I have received my answer.

I have no reason to take credit for anything....Everything that I have today I attribute to the grace of God. Many Sunday actors perform 'TV miracles' which we all know are staged and is one of the reasons why there is so much skepticism surrounding this subject.

Around 2005 I owned a company and befriended a security guard who did work at our company. At some stage he confided in me that he had a brother (If I remember his name was Michael) who was dying of throat cancer - The cancer was very severe and he had a few days to live. The security guard was very sorrowful because this brother had 2 small kids and naturally he was concerned about their futures. I felt great compassion for him and that day when I left work I started to pray for Michael....I didn't even know his surname. The trip home was about 40 minutes and when I had travelled about 5 minutes I had what one may call an epiphany....I knew immediately that something had happened. The next day the security guard was completely elated because his brother had been miraculously healed the previous day. Well I naturally was just as happy and proceeded to tell him what happened to me on the road...His brother was discharged 2 days later and came to see me (With his wife and the 2 kids) to personally thank me for praying for him - It was one of the greatest days of my life.

This is no fairy tale and happened exactly as is stated here....I have no reason to fabricate a story like this. If it was a fabrication then my own Christian walk would be a sham and worth nothing!

This is what I mean by a personal relationship....You cannot be a Christian for 25 years and suddenly turn away. Yes there a backslidden Christians but once you are marked you can never be the same.

At the end of the day I cannot force anybody to believe that God is as real today as he was millions of years ago. I cannot fathom the mysteries of the ages and frankly I don't want to....I just cannot turn my back on a God that listened to my prayer and healed Michael. There are other miracles that came about thru my prayers...

I love God and anybody can.....

Many people have anecdotal stories of "miracles" and the like from their religion. This is not evidence to anyone else, certainly not without corroborating evidence.

Even if true, as has been stated already, spontaneous remission of cancer is not unknown. Some associate it with "miracles', others with a quirk of biology.

Either way, it's not proof of the actions of a deity.

[Ravenshire]

The atheist Pope Matt Dillahunty was a christian for 25 years and was studying to become a minister.

Plenty of christians were dead serious about their belief but then lost it.

Why just christians? How come Muslims don't interest you? You can have a personal relationship with that other jesus guy, and Allan.

Bart D. Erhman was a devout christer, earning a Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary in 1985. He lost his faith as a direct result of his in depth study of the buy-bull. He claims the label agnostic but also claims that he does not believe in gawd (see the book "God's Problem").

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The atheist Pope Matt Dillahunty was a christian for 25 years and was studying to become a minister.

Plenty of christians were dead serious about their belief but then lost it.

Why just christians? How come Muslims don't interest you? You can have a personal relationship with that other jesus guy, and Allan.

Ok I have received my answer.

I have no reason to take credit for anything....Everything that I have today I attribute to the grace of God. Many Sunday actors perform 'TV miracles' which we all know are staged and is one of the reasons why there is so much skepticism surrounding this subject.

Around 2005 I owned a company and befriended a security guard who did work at our company. At some stage he confided in me that he had a brother (If I remember his name was Michael) who was dying of throat cancer - The cancer was very severe and he had a few days to live. The security guard was very sorrowful because this brother had 2 small kids and naturally he was concerned about their futures. I felt great compassion for him and that day when I left work I started to pray for Michael....I didn't even know his surname. The trip home was about 40 minutes and when I had travelled about 5 minutes I had what one may call an epiphany....I knew immediately that something had happened. The next day the security guard was completely elated because his brother had been miraculously healed the previous day. Well I naturally was just as happy and proceeded to tell him what happened to me on the road...His brother was discharged 2 days later and came to see me (With his wife and the 2 kids) to personally thank me for praying for him - It was one of the greatest days of my life.

This is no fairy tale and happened exactly as is stated here....I have no reason to fabricate a story like this. If it was a fabrication then my own Christian walk would be a sham and worth nothing!

This is what I mean by a personal relationship....You cannot be a Christian for 25 years and suddenly turn away. Yes there a backslidden Christians but once you are marked you can never be the same.

At the end of the day I cannot force anybody to believe that God is as real today as he was millions of years ago. I cannot fathom the mysteries of the ages and frankly I don't want to....I just cannot turn my back on a God that listened to my prayer and healed Michael. There are other miracles that came about thru my prayers...

I love God and anybody can.....

Well, since you seem to have a direct line to gawd, would you pray to it for me. You see, I need a new foreskin. Mine was cut off, without my consent, when I was but a wee babe. I'd like it back so that I can determine for myself if it's a good idea to have one or not.

I'm betting that, even if you pray via your direct line, nothing will happen. You see, it seems that gawd has no sympathy for any type of amputation. Every healing ever performed by your gawd can be explained by science. It certainly explains why no one, no matter how good, faithful and accepting of jeebus has ever experienced the spontaneous regrowth of any body part. Not an arm to work with nor a leg to walk with. Not even so much as a hand, a finger or even a bit of skin at the end of a dick.

Are all amputees horribly unclean and undeserving of healing?!?

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Why did God wait until you prayed for Michael's brother? Surely there were other people praying the man, why do you take credit for your prayer being the catalyst?

I take no credit - I knew when I hit the motorway on that day and at that exact moment that he was cured. That was the epiphany...I just knew it. There have been times when I have prayed and nothing happened and it frustrates me....But in that case it did. No doubt other people were praying for Michael - However the revelation/epiphany was revealed to me. Not in some audible voice or clear outward revelation....In my very soul I knew it! Also this is the first time since it happened (in 10 years) that I am revealing this supernatural event on a public forum. It is only for the benefit of this audience and I will take no credit....I cannot....I have no power to cure anybody. What I do know is that when you pray with a sincere heart that miracles do happen and if they don't I must be mature enough to accept that this too is God's will. May God bless you!

So, you'll pray for my foreskin then?!?

[downbeatplumb]

I have noticed that some of the atheist members on this forum state that some members were previously members of churches and then became atheists. My question is simply were any of these members Christians before - Here I mean, did any of these members have a personal relationship with Jesus and then became atheists? Anybody can 'belong to a church' but to have a relationship with God is something totally different....

How exactly do you have a personal relationship with something that has no evidence it exists?

Seems it would be a little one sided.

[Cato]

How exactly do you have a personal relationship with something that has no evidence it exists?

Every time I hear this personal relationship crap I think of this dude:

[The Valkyrie]

I think we should play this in the thread:

[Cyberman]

We could turn it into a drinking game. We'd all be totally blitzed in an hour.

[Mudhammam]

I actually once had someone tell me that the claim of "burden of proof" can't shoulder its own burden----that the one who raises the issue of any burden of proof must establish that the opponent making the original assertion bears the burden---it makes you wonder if people have any grasp of what a reductio ad absurdum is and if they really believe anyone else should find them convincing.

[robvalue]

Argument from accurate place names! I love it.

That one has always baffled me. We're supposed to be impressed that the authors knew the names of some of the towns around them. Talk about a low bar.

[daver49]

If you're trying to imply that God is nothing more than a reflection of human ideas of the times...then yes.

Which ideas might those be in your mind? And how does God become a "reflection" those ideas?