Perturbed and tired.

[BrendAddict]

Hello, this is my first visit to the site. I came here to release feelings and thoughts that I have no ability to do with the people in my circle. I am also searching google for some kind of phone support as well.
I am exhausted by confusion and I feel like I'm living a lie. I want to start from the beginning and wrap everything as tight as I can in the nutshell that is called this life that I am experiencing. I'm hoping that I will receive some words of comfort, guidance or understanding. But, at the same time, I know that not many have the time or the "give a damn" to read lengthy descriptions of another's woes. I'll do the best I can. Age 6 was the first time I attended church (for about 6-9 months), with an elderly couple who lived up the road. Let me tell you, all that I remember from that experience was this: My brother and I would run up to their house, the wife would have homemade candy, cakes, sodas and popcorn ready for us and the husband would have a board game. Afterwards, we would go to church. I don't remember what the inside of the church even looked like. All I was focused on was the good times beforehand which (now I know) gave me the motivation to do what they suggested. So, I got the reward before the "work", in a sense.

Fast forward to age 14. Now, my mom started taking us to some church filled with distant unknown relatives of hers. My brother and I hated it. She dragged us kicking and screaming, we called her a monster basically for forcing us to do something that we did not want to do. I eventually broke down and ran to the altar, crying. But... I still felt like it was wrong. I remember not feeling anything "holy", just crying because I was hurting emotionally and a song had stirred my feelings up in a knot. At the time I thought it was the right thing to do. Everybody was doing it, right? Oh... and did I mention that one expected perk of sitting in the pews was the tasty mints that were provided by my mother each service? Yeah, I could eat a whole bag of those things. And I have gotten close. Anywho, so we stopped going to that church after a while. My mom caught a lot of attention when word got around that she'd been in a relationship with a woman for over a decade. More to this portion, but as I said before.. I'm going to try to fit what I can remember as the important points for the time being...

Now we're at age 17-21: Now, I've been on my own for a while. I lived in several shelters, ranging from pure homelessness to abusive relationship group homes to addiction treatment centers. Every single one of the places I went to for help told me that I needed to have faith in god or my "higher power" and believe that jesus died for my sins so that I could be free. I really did give it an honest effort. I went to a few churches on and off. But now, looking back, it was always for someone else's comfort. Usually someone from the programs or a "friend in christ". They were trying their damndest to "win" my soul. They say that god shows favor to those who win souls... Does that mean that their intentions were selfish? It seems so...

Age 24: I discovered "Zeitgeist" and "The Secret" Movies. I felt like all of a sudden I wasn't the only skeptic and that I shouldn't have to pretend anymore to satisfy other's wishes for my life. Somehow that I am much more intelligent that previously thought. I started to break out of drone-mode. My mind was opening freely and loudly and I was happy. I shared my experience with everyone around me. Most were christians. They looked at me like I was confusing them, that I was crazy.... I conformed again.

Age 25 (current): My boyfriend and I have been together since 9/2013. We started going to his mother's church 2 months ago. This is the first time we have attended since we started dating. Though she constantly asked every week (several times/wk) if we were going to go with her... we just didn't, until recently. Truth is, it was a condition after we had broken up earlier this year. We should start going to church together and god will make everything alright and we will be together again. I agreed. You could say my boyfriend was the equivalent of the candy. If I get the candy, I'll go to church. Sure! I'll make the effort. After all, I am human. Candy is good. Back up a little bit... I introduced my boyfriend to the previously mentioned movies and he was quite intrigued. But his reaction, atleast to Zeitgest: "But what if there is a god? I'd rather take the chance than to not believe and end up in hell." This frustrated me. Moving on...... I find myself reluctant to attend church. The core of me feels that there is something so fake and so wrong about this concept. I have tried over the years to believe but it is so incredibly insane to me. Of course, a christian's perspective would be "That's the devil telling you lies".. With that said, I have had over 12 inpatient stays at mental health facilities in the last 7 years. I've attempted suicide 3 times in the past year. I'm at my wit's end. In January of this year, I cut my wrist (the correct way, 1 foot scar down my arm..) because I simply did not want to live any longer. Everyone around me says that god saved me. That he has a purpose for my life. I just can't accept that. When people are raising their hands, chanting, singing and speaking in tongues at this church... I often find myself thinking...."Why was I the one admitted to the hospital for mental health dysfunctions? Look at these people! Do they raise their hands and speak in tongues at work? Going down the road? Does god suddenly fill them with the "holy spirit" when they're not in church?

It feels like an act. It is an act. And I must not be a very good actress because it doesn't take long for me to question and feel alone in this. My boyfriend has been saying "have you prayed about it?" quite often since religion began in our relationship not so long ago and I find myself very annoyed. Why would I be annoyed if I believed that there was a god and that I wasn't just talking to myself? Don't get me wrong, talking to yourself is very important, I've learned from the beginnings of my knowledge of the law of attraction... But, if I say it's god... I know I'm lying. I have tried and tried over and over again, the absolute whole of my being is now saying NO. You are going in the wrong direction. This isn't right. You have to be somewhere else, doing something else. Not chanting and speaking mush in a cult! That's what church feels like to me.

Please, if you've read this, and your eyes must be tired by now... I need to know what you think. I fear homelessness again because I've lived it for so many years. I have employment that I could live on but I just started recently and I am going to the doctor for tendinitis, which disables me for the next 3 days from that 10 hour factory assembly job. I will lose my boyfriend, but I feel I need to leave. I do love him but there is a certain distance that I cannot explain.... I do not want to continue to lie about my beliefs (or lack thereof) but if I tell how I really feel, he will advise me to pray. And I feel like I would just search for a gun for myself at that point. It is absolutely. Exhausting.

[Minimalist]

Welcome, dear.

Two observations.


1.  A guy who still does what his mother says is not worth keeping.  He is always going to kowtow to her.  You don't need that.

2.  Churchie types always use emotional blackmail of one form or another.  They are all despicable.  Learn to recognize it for what it is and concentrate on your own needs and desires.

[Pyrrho]

I don't really have any great words of advice, or a magic cure for your problems.  It can be hard to live on your own without anyone helping you, and so it is very understandable that you are a bit reluctant to just refuse to pretend.

I do think, however, that you have not got quite the right handle on "pretend."  To pretend is not to believe.  Pretending is what actors do.  They pretend to be a king or a gangster or whatever.  And so they say and do the things that they are supposed to do.  But they do not believe that they really are kings and gangsters and etc.

I should preface this advice with the fact that, although I read through your post, I obviously do not have enough information to give you anything like definitive advice (and I might not be able to do that even if I knew everything you could possibly say about you).  If you can manage being alone, I recommend telling your boyfriend the truth, and if he is unwilling to accept it, break up with him.  After all, it does not sound like you are going to be happy with the way things are, and I don't see any other way to eliminate the things that distress you without doing this.

There are atheists in the world, even in places where most people are religious.  It can be hard to find them, though the internet can make that easier.  There might even be an atheist or freethinkers group in your area that meets and socializes.  You might want to search online if such a thing interests you.

I am sorry that I don't have anything better to say at the moment.

[AFTT47]

Holy crap. We get a lot of stories like this but your's is the most extreme since I have been here. I almost don't know where to begin.

First: Religious indoctrination SUCKS. Stable, educated adults wrestle with religious questions so most of us agree that putting religious ideas in the mind of a child is nothing less than abuse. We can help you with that.

Second: If you have had >12 in-patient admissions for mental health issues, you probably do have a problem. Nothing to be ashamed of. The mind is a product of physical processes in the brain. Just as the heart, lungs, kidneys and liver can have physical problems, so can the brain. There is an unfortunate stigma attached to mental illness that we (as a society) are in the early stages of addressing. Obviously though, there is nothing wrong with your reasoning ability. You may simply have emotional issues that are usually a result of brain chemistry and can be treated. We can't help you there except to advise that you take whatever advice your mental health professional gives you.

You probably have a triple whammy. You were indoctrinated with religious mind-control, your immediate circle consists of Christian zombies AND you have physically-based emotional issues. No wonder you are having problems. You don't say where you live. That would help us get a better idea of your situation.

Anyway, here's a big WELCOME! You're among friends here. We care.

[Cato]

An unenviable predicament. First things first, please continue to seek professional help regarding your mental health. Prayer is not going to help. Your boyfriend and his family may or may not be sincere regarding their concern for you, but if all that is recommended is prayer I question how healthy the relationship is for your emotional well being. 

I'm a firm believer in being honest about beliefs, particularly in personal relationships. Perpetuating a charade only delays the inevitable and will make things worse. Your immediate reliance on your boyfriend for a place to live makes things a bit complicated and may influence timing. I would hate to think that you would be immediately turned out if you were to come clean given the length of the relationship and its continuance considering some of the challenges you've faced. 

Zeitgeist is conspiratorial rubbish. The Secret and its Law of Attraction is new age woo. Both, in general, are unsubstantiated bullshit. These could be good conversation topics in dedicated threads.

Welcome to the forums. If anything I hope you find it to be a place you can come vent and share ideas. 

[BrendAddict]

Welcome, dear.

Two observations.


1.  A guy who still does what his mother says is not worth keeping.  He is always going to kowtow to her.  You don't need that.

2.  Churchie types always use emotional blackmail of one form or another.  They are all despicable.  Learn to recognize it for what it is and concentrate on your own needs and desires.

I thank you for your kind welcome and observations.


1. You are right. What I've been told is that a man who loves and respects his mother is the perfect man. However, he receives phone calls and texts at a minimum of 5x/day and a maximum of 20+/day. It has become a problem in our relationship. She also lives less than 1/4 mile away. As do his aunt, uncle and cousins (actually they live about a 45 second walk away)..... I am constantly rejected by his family, to say the least... and I feel that his mom is the most important person to him, in his current life. Even moreso than this god that he claims to love. She is there. Every. Day. And though she is a good person and means well, she takes him from me. And throws him towards god. But in the end, it feels like all he is trying to do is to please her. I understand that people need to be close to their family and whatnot but there comes a point in time when I feel that I am pushed aside. And I can't be myself... because he tells his family every...thing.... I feel like such an outsider.

2. I am glad you understand my feelings about this. I have tried to learn to recognize it for what it is.. then I seem to have backtracked into the "well I have to pretend so that I can have my needs and desires met". Because otherwise, at this point, once I reveal my true feelings... I will lose my needs and desires. Maybe not forever. But the beginning of this change is what I'm afraid of. I've lived the life of that person on the side of the street, depending on the government's food supply and being afraid of the pressure of drugs and alcohol (as I have had a past of confirmed addiction) and sexual/physical assault.

Basically, it feels to me that I either have the choice to go back to the homeless lifestyle... or to live a life of pretend for someone else's relief......

[dahrling]

Hello  (: 
Firstly, my name is Sara. I'm 19 years old and I have not been through the same experiences that you have so everything I have to say comes from a purely personal perspective with a very different point of view. If I offend you in anyway please let me know because that is not my intent. 

I don't know what to say to someone who has been through as much as you have. I think that might be the reason people point you to god whenever you try to tell them about your struggles. They know there's nothing they can do, except tell you about this "all-powerful being" who is supposed to take care of all your problems and make everything alright, if not in this life then in the other. 
You have to understand, these people have also had struggles and whenever they felt hopeless they felt would tell themselves that there was this god behind them, giving them strength to go on. But you never needed that. You're strong, all by yourself. You've survived this far, you've come all this way without resorting to this god everyone insists on telling you about. You're a true survivor. 

I cannot understand being homeless. But I can understand what confusion feels like, and what living a lie can do to you. 
For a long time, I suffered all by myself. I pretended (to myself and to everybody else) everything was alright when it wasn't. Then I turned to "god" - and to be honest many times it really did feel completely genuine. I truly felt this love and hope come over me, although looking back I don't think it was a supernatural experience, I think I was pushed to my limits and being told this superior and loving being existed made me feel alive. It made me feel hopeful. It made me feel loved. 
In many ways, this god kept me alive. There were quite a few times I wanted to suicide, but the though of going to hell stopped me. It feels ironic now. I do not fear hell anymore, but now I do want to live because I know we only have one shot at it.

I know what it is like having people close to you who believe in god and who do not want to let go of him. I'm surrounded by them. What I have come to understand is that to many people the idea that their life is finite - that once you're dead, you're dead - is very hard to accept. For me, that was probably the hardest concept to overcome when turning away from religion.

There is also the fact that there is so much injustice in the world, and I knew there isn't going to be a final judgement when people will pay for their crimes. And so many people have suffered, and keep suffering, for absolutely no logical reason. 

Ultimately, faith is belief despite evidence. People will tell you that you must choose faith or reason.
For me, it was no longer a choice. No matter how much I tried to keep my faith in god, I just couldn't. The evidence was too loud. The biblical contradictions spoke volumes to me. How could a loving god allow people to suffer? And no matter how much I tried to tell myself that it was god's plan, or that we deserve it, or that there is a reason to it, I simply couldn't swallow any of it anymore. I had to let it go.

I have a father who is deeply religious. He also tells me to pray when I struggle. I simply look at him, and think about how naive that concept is, and then I just let it go. I don't tell him that I'll pray or that I believe in god. I just look away, or change the subject. Sometimes I go deeper into it and say "that is not enough for me". And then I realize there is nothing he can do for me, all I want is for him to say "I'm sorry, that must be hard" and give me a hug. But I cannot change who he is. Maybe you have to accept how your boyfriend feels too, maybe you can both reach a neutral ground. You don't speak about atheism, he doesn't speak about Christianity. I've seen it work, but I cannot say it will work for you or for anybody else. 

I am here if you want to talk - you can send me private messages and I will help you if I can. 
All I can say is that what you're going through must be really hard. And I wish I could give you a hug  

[BrendAddict]

I thank you for your kind welcome and observations.

1. You are right. What I've been told is that a man who loves and respects his mother is the perfect man. However, he receives phone calls and texts at a minimum of 5x/day and a maximum of 20+/day. It has become a problem in our relationship. She also lives less than 1/4 mile away. As do his aunt, uncle and cousins (actually they live about a 45 second walk away)..... I am constantly rejected by his family, to say the least... and I feel that his mom is the most important person to him, in his current life. Even moreso than this god that he claims to love. She is there. Every. Day. And though she is a good person and means well, she takes him from me. And throws him towards god. But in the end, it feels like all he is trying to do is to please her. I understand that people need to be close to their family and whatnot but there comes a point in time when I feel that I am pushed aside. And I can't be myself... because he tells his family every...thing.... I feel like such an outsider.

2. I am glad you understand my feelings about this. I have tried to learn to recognize it for what it is.. then I seem to have backtracked into the "well I have to pretend so that I can have my needs and desires met". Because otherwise, at this point, once I reveal my true feelings... I will lose my needs and desires. Maybe not forever. But the beginning of this change is what I'm afraid of. I've lived the life of that person on the side of the street, depending on the government's food supply and being afraid of the pressure of drugs and alcohol (as I have had a past of confirmed addiction) and sexual/physical assault.

Basically, it feels to me that I either have the choice to go back to the homeless lifestyle... or to live a life of pretend for someone else's relief......I thank you for your kind welcome and observations.

1. You are right. What I've been told is that a man who loves and respects his mother is the perfect man. However, he receives phone calls and texts at a minimum of 5x/day and a maximum of 20+/day. It has become a problem in our relationship. She also lives less than 1/4 mile away. As do his aunt, uncle and cousins (actually they live about a 45 second walk away)..... I am constantly rejected by his family, to say the least... and I feel that his mom is the most important person to him, in his current life. Even moreso than this god that he claims to love. She is there. Every. Day. And though she is a good person and means well, she takes him from me. And throws him towards god. But in the end, it feels like all he is trying to do is to please her. I understand that people need to be close to their family and whatnot but there comes a point in time when I feel that I am pushed aside. And I can't be myself... because he tells his family every...thing.... I feel like such an outsider.

2. I am glad you understand my feelings about this. I have tried to learn to recognize it for what it is.. then I seem to have backtracked into the "well I have to pretend so that I can have my needs and desires met". Because otherwise, at this point, once I reveal my true feelings... I will lose my needs and desires. Maybe not forever. But the beginning of this change is what I'm afraid of. I've lived the life of that person on the side of the street, depending on the government's food supply and being afraid of the pressure of drugs and alcohol (as I have had a past of confirmed addiction) and sexual/physical assault.

Basically, it feels to me that I either have the choice to go back to the homeless lifestyle... or to live a life of pretend for someone else's relief......I thank you for your kind welcome and observations.

1. You are right. What I've been told is that a man who loves and respects his mother is the perfect man. However, he receives phone calls and texts at a minimum of 5x/day and a maximum of 20+/day. It has become a problem in our relationship. She also lives less than 1/4 mile away. As do his aunt, uncle and cousins (actually they live about a 45 second walk away)..... I am constantly rejected by his family, to say the least... and I feel that his mom is the most important person to him, in his current life. Even moreso than this god that he claims to love. She is there. Every. Day. And though she is a good person and means well, she takes him from me. And throws him towards god. But in the end, it feels like all he is trying to do is to please her. I understand that people need to be close to their family and whatnot but there comes a point in time when I feel that I am pushed aside. And I can't be myself... because he tells his family every...thing.... I feel like such an outsider.

2. I am glad you understand my feelings about this. I have tried to learn to recognize it for what it is.. then I seem to have backtracked into the "well I have to pretend so that I can have my needs and desires met". Because otherwise, at this point, once I reveal my true feelings... I will lose my needs and desires. Maybe not forever. But the beginning of this change is what I'm afraid of. I've lived the life of that person on the side of the street, depending on the government's food supply and being afraid of the pressure of drugs and alcohol (as I have had a past of confirmed addiction) and sexual/physical assault.

Basically, it feels to me that I either have the choice to go back to the homeless lifestyle... or to live a life of pretend for someone else's relief......I thank you for your kind welcome and observations.

1. You are right. What I've been told is that a man who loves and respects his mother is the perfect man. However, he receives phone calls and texts at a minimum of 5x/day and a maximum of 20+/day. It has become a problem in our relationship. She also lives less than 1/4 mile away. As do his aunt, uncle and cousins (actually they live about a 45 second walk away)..... I am constantly rejected by his family, to say the least... and I feel that his mom is the most important person to him, in his current life. Even moreso than this god that he claims to love. She is there. Every. Day. And though she is a good person and means well, she takes him from me. And throws him towards god. But in the end, it feels like all he is trying to do is to please her. I understand that people need to be close to their family and whatnot but there comes a point in time when I feel that I am pushed aside. And I can't be myself... because he tells his family every...thing.... I feel like such an outsider.

2. I am glad you understand my feelings about this. I have tried to learn to recognize it for what it is.. then I seem to have backtracked into the "well I have to pretend so that I can have my needs and desires met". Because otherwise, at this point, once I reveal my true feelings... I will lose my needs and desires. Maybe not forever. But the beginning of this change is what I'm afraid of. I've lived the life of that person on the side of the street, depending on the government's food supply and being afraid of the pressure of drugs and alcohol (as I have had a past of confirmed addiction) and sexual/physical assault.

Basically, it feels to me that I either have the choice to go back to the homeless lifestyle... or to live a life of pretend for someone else's relief......II thank you for your kind welcome and observations.

1. You are right. What I've been told is that a man who loves and respects his mother is the perfect man. However, he receives phone calls and texts at a minimum of 5x/day and a maximum of 20+/day. It has become a problem in our relationship. She also lives less than 1/4 mile away. As do his aunt, uncle and cousins (actually they live about a 45 second walk away)..... I am constantly rejected by his family, to say the least... and I feel that his mom is the most important person to him, in his current life. Even moreso than this god that he claims to love. She is there. Every. Day. And though she is a good person and means well, she takes him from me. And throws him towards god. But in the end, it feels like all he is trying to do is to please her. I understand that people need to be close to their family and whatnot but there comes a point in time when I feel that I am pushed aside. And I can't be myself... because he tells his family every...thing.... I feel like such an outsider.

2. I am glad you understand my feelings about this. I have tried to learn to recognize it for what it is.. then I seem to have backtracked into the "well I have to pretend so that I can have my needs and desires met". Because otherwise, at this point, once I reveal my true feelings... I will lose my needs and desires. Maybe not forever. But the beginning of this change is what I'm afraid of. I've lived the life of that person on the side of the street, depending on the government's food supply and being afraid of the pressure of drugs and alcohol (as I have had a past of confirmed addiction) and sexual/physical assault.

Basically, it feels to me that I either have the choice to go back to the homeless lifestyle... or to live a life of pretend for someone else's relief......I thank you for your kind welcome and observations.

---

im sorry, my keyboard is messing up. i tried to use wordpad to write my responses and reply to each message. but everytime i hit the shift button to apply grammar to my words, it copies what i had written before. i am exceptionally grateful for every one of your responses and once i figure out whats wrong with this keyboard or replace it, i will respond individually to each post. i cannot describe how absolutely amazing i feel from the support received. i broke down into tears several times. i am sorry that i am unable to respond individually. please know that your messages are received.

---

im sorry, my keyboard is messing up. i tried to use wordpad to write my responses and reply to each message. but everytime i hit the shift button to apply grammar to my words, it copies what i had written before. i am exceptionally grateful for every one of your responses and once i figure out whats wrong with this keyboard or replace it, i will respond individually to each post. i cannot describe how absolutely amazing i feel from the support received. i broke down into tears several times. i am sorry that i am unable to respond individually. please know that your messages are received.

---

im sorry, my keyboard is messing up. i tried to use wordpad to write my responses and reply to each message. but everytime i hit the shift button to apply grammar to my words, it copies what i had written before. i am exceptionally grateful for every one of your responses and once i figure out whats wrong with this keyboard or replace it, i will respond individually to each post. i cannot describe how absolutely amazing i feel from the support received. i broke down into tears several times. i am sorry that i am unable to respond individually. please know that your messages are received.

[Aroura]

Hello and welcome.

I wish I had tons of good advice to give you, it sounds like a few here already are.
The change that comes, losing friends and relatives when you admit your skepticism or lack of belief is tough, especially if you already suffer with mental health issues. I sympathize, though I have not had the severity you describe, I also suffer from mental health issues (depression and severe anxiety). It makes it very hard to break free from the comfort of the people and places you know, even when you realize they are false and perhaps even bad for you.

I hope you find it in yourself to act on your own beliefs, or lack-there-of, and come to realize someday that you don't need the tainted candy (or sex, or love, or whatever) that comes at the high price of emotional blackmail.

My best wishes. Hanging out with like minded people on these forums has helped me through the depressing aspects of my own deconversion, and I hope we can be some support for you too!

[robvalue]

Hello there, welcome

I'm very sorry to hear what you have gone through. I too suffer from severe depression although I got there for different reasons. You're always welcome to send me a private message if you would like to talk.

As you have figured out, religion is nonsense, and praying does nothing except the placebo effect (this has been scientifically demonstrated). It's all rubbish and it's used to control people by making ridiculous claims that can't be proved wrong, but which have no evidence to support them being right. It's terrible that when people offered you "help" it was with strings attached, to try and score points by recruiting you. It's disgusting.

It sounds to me like you should be honest with people about your scepticism, and if that changes how they feel about you, then they're not worth having in your life anyway. As for your boyfriend's argument, that is called Pascal's wager and is totally flawed. Firstly, belief is a state of mind not a choice, so you can't choose to believe in Christianity. You can just say you do, but that's not giving God much credit if he thinks he will fall for that. Secondly, christiniaty is just 1 of an infinite number of possible religions which might be the "true" one, so in fact his odds aren't as good as he thinks, they are next to zero. Even within Christianity, with 40,000 sects you're still almost certain to be wrong.

Anyhow, well done on seeing through the religious nonsense, and I hope people around you will like you for who you are not what nutty beliefs they can drill into you. I'm really sorry about all you have gone through, I can't imagine how difficult it is. Please carry on getting help, and maybe being open will make things a little easier. You've always got us here to talk to.