Ask a Catholic

[Randy Carson]

But let's review, abortion offers:

• the near certainty of death for the unborn child (though some survive the botched attempts at chopping them up in utero) 
  
• the risk of death for the mother (yeah, it really does happen)
  
• the risk of complications (such as sterilization)
  
• the risk of infection (also potentially sterilizing)
  
• the near certainty that the mother (and father) will live with the guilt of having killed their own baby for the rest of their lives (though some claim to be immune from this)
  

So, after a quick review of your posts, I don't think I "ignored" anything. But if I did, you will remind me, won't you?

Thanks.

Your god has murdered over 50 billion children.

See my thread called "god, the author of the biggest holocaust".

100 billion people born in total.
Half of them died while they are still children.
Most of them from disease your god does nothing about.

Face it, you god could have created any planet for us, yet he decided to put us on a child killer.

Not to mention, that over half of all fertilized eggs never become fetus'. The number of abortions your god is responsible for dwarfs the induced abortions by 10's of billions.

Here's a question for you.

Does anything happen that is not a part of god's plan?

Simon-

I'm familiar with the argument. You can get a good response in any number of good books. Amazon will help you find one to walk you through this.

---

Google modern logic and text.  There are many many good ones and all much the same.  Historical method is a little more diverse.  Read several.

Jenny-

I was in the middle of a fairly long response, when I accidentally closed my browser...though I'm not certain I did it.

Anyhoo, I will start over tomorrow. My apologies for the delay...I liked several of your points.

[Simon Moon]

Simon-

I'm familiar with the argument. You can get a good response in any number of good books. Amazon will help you find one to walk you through this.

I've heard the responses. They are inadequate.

But let me hear your response. We are on a discussion forum, discuss.  

What about my other question. 

Does anything happen that is not part of god's plan?

[Randy Carson]

Simon-

I'm familiar with the argument. You can get a good response in any number of good books. Amazon will help you find one to walk you through this.

I've heard the responses. They are inadequate.

But let me hear your response. We are on a discussion forum, discuss.  

What about my other question. 

Does anything happen that is not part of god's plan?

So you say.

My opinion is that God either wills or allows everything to happen.

So, lots of things happen that are not "part of God's plan".  My theory (and it's only mine and only a theory) is this:

 
God's will and the leading of the Holy Spirit are a bit like the operation of a GPS device. Your ultimate destination is heaven, but there may be many paths in life that you make take on your way to those pearly gates. You might get married, you could enter religious life, you could choose any number of careers, etc.
 
Along the way, as you make these choices from a number of options, the Holy Spirit knows how to get you to the Gates of Heaven by the most efficient route, and He is constantly making real-time course corrections, taking traffic congestion into consideration, etc. Occasionally, you may take a wrong turn, and hear the Spirit say, "Recalculating Route" or "Make a legal u-turn" or "Please drive to highlighted route" when you are completely off-road.
 
So, while there are numerous options in life that enable you to exercise your free will, God will guide you safely home if you listen carefully and follow the instructions of God's Perfect Spirit.

(see what I did there?  )

[dyresand]

I've heard the responses. They are inadequate.

But let me hear your response. We are on a discussion forum, discuss.  

What about my other question. 

Does anything happen that is not part of god's plan?

So you say.

My opinion is that God either wills or allows everything to happen.

So, lots of things happen that are not "part of God's plan".  My theory (and it's only mine and only a theory) is this:

 
God's will and the leading of the Holy Spirit are a bit like the operation of a GPS device. Your ultimate destination is heaven, but there may be many paths in life that you make take on your way to those pearly gates. You might get married, you could enter religious life, you could choose any number of careers, etc.
 
Along the way, as you make these choices from a number of options, the Holy Spirit knows how to get you to the Gates of Heaven by the most efficient route, and He is constantly making real-time course corrections, taking traffic congestion into consideration, etc. Occasionally, you may take a wrong turn, and hear the Spirit say, "Recalculating Route" or "Make a legal u-turn" or "Please drive to highlighted route" when you are completely off-road.
 
So, while there are numerous options in life that enable you to exercise your free will, God will guide you safely home if you listen carefully and follow the instructions of God's Perfect Spirit.

(see what I did there?  )

Um bullshit your assertion is all bullshit. If god had a plan he has all the power in the world to do what ever he wants. That being said god is all knowing he lets bad things happen 
and doesn't stop it. Again god is all knowing and lets it happen so those people dying of natural disaster or even worse god being the actual cause for said disasters and ones he can stop he doesn't.  Simply put your god is not good no matter the assertions or plans or anything disingenuous could say make god look good at all.  Again the bible its all bullshit. jesus and hell made up by the catholics again the bible is bullshit.

[Cyberman]

[Randy Carson]

So you say.

My opinion is that God either wills or allows everything to happen.

So, lots of things happen that are not "part of God's plan".  My theory (and it's only mine and only a theory) is this:

 
God's will and the leading of the Holy Spirit are a bit like the operation of a GPS device. Your ultimate destination is heaven, but there may be many paths in life that you make take on your way to those pearly gates. You might get married, you could enter religious life, you could choose any number of careers, etc.
 
Along the way, as you make these choices from a number of options, the Holy Spirit knows how to get you to the Gates of Heaven by the most efficient route, and He is constantly making real-time course corrections, taking traffic congestion into consideration, etc. Occasionally, you may take a wrong turn, and hear the Spirit say, "Recalculating Route" or "Make a legal u-turn" or "Please drive to highlighted route" when you are completely off-road.
 
So, while there are numerous options in life that enable you to exercise your free will, God will guide you safely home if you listen carefully and follow the instructions of God's Perfect Spirit.

(see what I did there?  )

Um bullshit your assertion is all bullshit. If god had a plan he has all the power in the world to do what ever he wants.

Agreed.

That being said god is all knowing he lets bad things happen

Agreed.
 

and doesn't stop it.

Because if He did, we would resent His tyranny.

Again god is all knowing and lets it happen so those people dying of natural disaster or even worse god being the actual cause for said disasters and ones he can stop he doesn't.

How WE respond in the face of natural disasters is more important than how He responds.

Simply put your god is not good no matter the assertions or plans or anything disingenuous could say make god look good at all.  Again the bible its all bullshit. jesus and hell made up by the catholics again the bible is bullshit.

How much of the New Testament have you actually read? And how recently?

[The Valkyrie]

But let's review, abortion offers:

• the near certainty of death for the unborn child (though some survive the botched attempts at chopping them up in utero) 
  
• the risk of death for the mother (yeah, it really does happen)
  
• the risk of complications (such as sterilization)
  
• the risk of infection (also potentially sterilizing)
  
• the near certainty that the mother (and father) will live with the guilt of having killed their own baby for the rest of their lives (though some claim to be immune from this)
  

So, after a quick review of your posts, I don't think I "ignored" anything. But if I did, you will remind me, won't you?

Thanks.

Your god has murdered over 50 billion children.

See my thread called "god, the author of the biggest holocaust".

100 billion people born in total.
Half of them died while they are still children.
Most of them from disease your god does nothing about.

Face it, your god could have created any planet for us, yet he decided to put us on a child killer.

Not to mention, that over half of all fertilized eggs never become fetus'. The number of abortions your god is responsible for dwarfs the induced abortions by 10's of billions.

Here's a question for you.

Does anything happen that is not a part of god's plan?

Let's not forget the biggest abortionist in history.

For every abortion carried out by humans there are dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands of miscarriages.

Why would "god" do that if it was so pro-birth? 

[Jenny A]

Jenny-

I was in the middle of a fairly long response, when I accidentally closed my browser...though I'm not certain I did it.

Anyhoo, I will start over tomorrow. My apologies for the delay...I liked several of your points.

No problem, but I'll be off line over the weekend.  We're chaperoning a teen camping trip.

[dyresand]

Um bullshit your assertion is all bullshit. If god had a plan he has all the power in the world to do what ever he wants.

Agreed.

That being said god is all knowing he lets bad things happen

Agreed.
 

and doesn't stop it.

Because if He did, we would resent His tyranny.

Again god is all knowing and lets it happen so those people dying of natural disaster or even worse god being the actual cause for said disasters and ones he can stop he doesn't.

How WE respond in the face of natural disasters is more important than how He responds.

Simply put your god is not good no matter the assertions or plans or anything disingenuous could say make god look good at all.  Again the bible its all bullshit. jesus and hell made up by the catholics again the bible is bullshit.

How much of the New Testament have you actually read? And how recently?

Because if He did, we would resent His tyranny.


Well you just proved god isn't good.   You can have a god that is only good and helps this god isn't clearly loving. 
Would you love and worship someone if they could kill you. Theists have beaten wife syndrome its really sad for the people 
who really hate it and truly pathetic to have it from a imaginary friend. 

How WE respond in the face of natural disasters is more important than how He responds.

Well god is useless and he should go away. He isn't helping anyone humanity can help itself. 
That being said we are more loving and caring than any god is. god is not love get over it. 

How much of the New Testament have you actually read? And how recently?

Saying god is good in a book doesn't make him good. You want to know why i say that.
He has no regards to human life he can  easily take it considering you guys call the devil bad.
That is hypocrisy  you can only find in this type of religion. 

god kills billions of people

devil only gets 10 people killed over a petty debt. 

If job knew if he only knew the circumstances that his only wife left him and his children killed. Job 
wouldn't even dare i mean even wouldn't dare to even acknowledge god. I mean you are a parent i'm guessing
and if you knew your child died over a petty bet with god and the devil you wouldn't even bother either.
It was more of a spit in the face to job to get things twice over a wife and new kids it really was a spit in the face
its like god doesn't care he could have brought back the people he loved and didn't. Its like life to god is just
cheap play things and you don't realize that even after reading the bible... you need to really analyze it. 

[Randy Carson]