Why be good?

[Alex K]

He's only a "good debater" if the intended audience knows nothing of the subject. He obviously lies and distorts in every other sentence.

[Angrboda]

the fact that we can live in relative peace, in some parts of the world at least, I think shows we are generally "good".

Rob-

Are you too young to remember what Hitler tried to do to England during the blitz? Good grief, man, how can you as an Englishman speak of "relative peace" when A) we Yanks have had to come over and save your butts twice and B) the world is poised for round three as we speak?

Russia wants the Ukraine and more.
China is building an island in disputed waters in order to establish a military base upon it.
N. Korea could go nuclear on S. Korea anytime the "highly evolved" leader of that country orders it.
Iran will attack Israel the first chance it gets...you can bet on that if not on a tub of sweets.
ISIS will attack Europe and the US as soon as possible.
And here in the US, we're just one or two more unarmed black teens shot and killed by cops away from all-out civil war.

Do you really think we're "generally good"? And in each of the cases I listed above, why shouldn't the aggressors move against those they perceive to be weaker?

That's how evolution works.  

G'night, everyone. Great discussion. Thanks.

You've asked the question "Why be good?" The question "Why be bad?" may require a separate and further elucidation.

Our evolved social nature has multiple facets. Just as it may lead to cooperation within our in-group, it can lead to competition with those perceived to be in the out-group. We do not generally see ourselves as a united species just yet, so in-group / out-group dynamics are a part of our evolved social behavior. I do not see climbing to the top of a political hierarchy, nor competing with someone perceived as "other" as necessarily "bad acts" — they are both aspects of the social impulse. It's unfortunate that people die as a result of this working out of the social impulse, but it is just another side of the equation for a social species that some goals will be sought through cooperation, and some goals will be sought through competition. There is room for both behaviors in a social species, and generally speaking, the ground rules for cooperation set the stage for behaviors of competition. We all compete for the most prized goods, as school children, as employees, as politicians — but we do so within the framework of a social milieu. We cooperate and compete.

[robvalue]

Regarding that second video:

"We kicked God out of our schools"?

How pathetic is this dude that we can just toss him out like a smelly sock?

"You gotta invite him back in!"

What is he, a vampire now? He never used to require permission before razing whole towns to the ground.

Of course, by "God" he means "my god" because some people just can't understand the distinction.

[Whateverist]

If there is no God, then there is no hell; and if there is no hell, then there are no ultimate, eternal repercussions, good or bad, for how we live out our mortal lives. Of course, atheists insist that people should be "good without God."

But why? If God does not exist, why be good?

This question gets boring, Randy. You believe in hell right? So let's say that there is no hell, would you still be good? I personally don't see why people would need an ultimate or eternal consequence to motivate them to be good.

I guess he is confessing to us that without Gods plan (big carrot, bigger stick), in his (Randy's) heart of heart there is only ill will. The destructive urges and psychopathic indifference he projects onto those of us without gods are simply what he knows of his own true nature.

Who here hopes with me that Randy remain yoked to god's big carrot and stick?

[robvalue]

I really hope WLC doesn't understand what secularism means. Because if he does, he is suggesting the Catholic Church is fighting against secularism. I'm sure atheism and secularism all sound the same to him.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Both empathy and practicality.

A normal, well-balanced human vicariously feels pain at the suffering of another, and therefore tends to avoid inflicting it.

Practically, being a nice guy keeps one in the good graces of other humans with whom one must live and work.

Karma is not a metaphysical process, to me; it's a material phenomenon, and it can be summed up in three words: assholes make enemies.

How do you put this philosophy into practice, PT? Of all people, I find this most ironic coming from you.

How have you sought to avoid becoming my enemy over the past three weeks?

I don't like dishonest people, and you are dishonest. You're dishonest about why you're here, you're dishonest with yourself in why you believe what you believe, and you deploy lies in the effort to attain your "aha!" moment even though that means you must be dishonest with yourself.

I don't seek enmical relations with anyone, nor do I seek pacific relations with anyone. I seek honest relations with someone. And when someone is not honest, I do not go out of my way to spare their feelings.

Don't like it? Perhaps you could deal with matters honestly. I don't hold grudges.

To answer your question as to how I put empathy to work in my life, I treat people the way I'd like to be treated, until they cease reciprocation. At that point, I reciprocate their mistreatment. When you dodge questions, and impute positions to people that they clearly don't hold, that's rude, and I'm not going to be polite as you're being rude to me.

[dyresand]

Regarding that second video:

"We kicked God out of our schools"?

How pathetic is this dude that we can just toss him out like a smelly sock?

"You gotta invite him back in!"

What is he, a vampire now? He never used to require permission before razing whole towns to the ground.

Of course, by "God" he means "my god" because some people just can't understand the distinction.

The guy talking doesn't know what he is talking about. You can pray in school you can do your religious bullshit in school
the thing is a teacher is not allowed to lead it is all. So as far as letting god in school technically the non existent being is already
there just that kids are doing school work and not fucking reading the bible or praying. You can pray on your own time just you just dont
see kids doing that sort of thing. 

[Alex K]

I really hope WLC doesn't understand what secularism means. Because if he does, he is suggesting the Catholic Church is fighting against secularism. I'm sure atheism and secularism all sound the same to him.

Don't assume that anything WLC says is said by him because it is his conviction. He is a psychopath who will systematically say whatever it takes to win.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I would argue that such a spectacle would be riotously funny and that I'd point and laugh at any fool engaged in such theatrics.

I have witnessed it and I personally found it to be kind of terrifying. 

I was scared the first time I saw an epileptic fit ... but that was because I knew the victim couldn't control themselves. A dog-and-pony show like glossolalia, being used to entrance the gullible, would arouse my mirth.

---

Quick post before I head to work...more later.

Can we discern any consensus of opinion from the posts thus far? Folks have offered many different reasons for "why" we are good including:

It makes me feel good
It makes me feel bad (when I do bad)
Convention
Evolution

You forgot to mention empathy.

This is an example of the dishonesty that earns you the scorn and contempt you're complaining about.

It seems to me that these are examples of Darwinism at work...and evidence that evolution's demand that only the strong survive is still in full effect.

Evolution doesn't demand that only the strong survive. It demonstrates that the fittest survive.

Once again, you are deliberately mischaracterizing something even after you've been corrected.

Once more, an example of your dishonesty.

Is it any wonder you're not getting the respect you clearly desire?

[SteelCurtain]

Liar, thy name is Randy.

How many times are you going to ignore the correction to your notion of "strongest" and "fittest" with regard to evolution being factually incorrect?

I am loath to write more than two lines, it seems obvious that's as far as you read.