Have I misunderstood socialism?

[Tiberius]

@Sae:

I was quoting Winston Churchill, because downbeatplumb used a quote where he apparently said Socialism was the best possible system, and I couldn't find any such quote. All I found were quotes from Churchill saying that Socialism was evil.

[Violet]

@Sae:

I was quoting Winston Churchill, because downbeatplumb used a quote where he apparently said Socialism was the best possible system, and I couldn't find any such quote. All I found were quotes from Churchill saying that Socialism was evil.

Was the quote from Winston Churchill? :S If so then that would be really weird...

Oh you're right : o DBP did say it was a paraphrase from Winston Churchill. I have no idea then

[Tiberius]

Maybe he thought paraphrasing was using a similar phrase with different words and meanings. I've always understood paraphrasing to be re-wording a quote whilst keeping the original meaning, and it seems like dictionaries think that too.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

@Sae

I agree with your assessment of the inequalities in both Socialism and and Capitalism in practice.I think this may because each system claims to believe in 'equality' which is romantic nonsense at best,and pure cynicism at worst. I accept the notion of legal, civil and customary rights,but reject the notion of innate rights of any kind. Human beings are NOT equal in any sense of the word. There is no such thing as a meritocracy in the literal sense [that I have ever seen]..

Marxist perspective: Capitalism is more an effect than a cause. It is above all an economic system,which resulted from feudalism and the resulting class system. Capitalism was reinforced and broadened by the industrial revolution as societies became more industry/city and less agrarian /country based. It reinforces existing class systems and perpetuates existing inequalities and injustices. (inventing new ones whenever profitable)


Socialism is primarily a cause, a form of social rather than economic organistation. Capitalism can exist in a modified form within a Socialist system, but is not inferred,nor is a market economy with a fiat currency.

BUT both are deeply flawed as are all Utopian ideologies (IE promising mass human happiness/equality/justice,etc etc etc ad nauseum) Of the two,capitalism is probably the most pragmatic. IF one happens to be a 'have' instead of a 'have not'. It's true enough to claim some poor people of ability will prosper within a capitalist system.However, it's far easier for an affluent person of limited ability to prosper in such a rigged game.

[downbeatplumb]

Can you source that quote? I can't find it on WikiQuote, but I can find these:

"The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy."

Perhaps you mistook this quote of his?

"Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

I appologise for muddying the water with my missquote, I never meant to imply that Winston Churchill was a socialist and am sorry that I gave that impression.
I knew it was referring to democracy I used the wrong term paraphrase when I should have said rejigged or some such.

I just liked the wording and thought fit nicely.

I shall be more carefull, (until the next time I fuck up)

[Tiberius]

Ah ok. I suspected it was something like that when I read over it again.

[bozo]

You Adrian don't so much misunderstand, more you are violently opposed to the idea. You like capitalism.

[Tiberius]

Well done on not getting the idea of the thread bozo. I'm opposed to what I perceive as socialism, and the point of the thread was to ask questions to make sure what I thought socialism was matches what socialists think it is (like padraic's thread on Libertarianism). So far, the answers have been surprising.

[Violet]

Well done on not getting the idea of the thread bozo. I'm opposed to what I perceive as socialism, and the point of the thread was to ask questions to make sure what I thought socialism was matches what socialists think it is (like padraic's thread on Libertarianism). So far, the answers have been surprising.

I was being very defensive of it from your initial points against it

Bozo might have something interesting to contribute though

Welcome back

[Tiberius]

I doubt it. Bozo is still stuck with a 1970's mindset; he can't accept that things have changed for the generations below him.