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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 18, 2015 at 11:42 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 11:44 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 18, 2015 at 11:45 pm
(June 18, 2015 at 9:54 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I usually try to be pretty polite to most of our resident Christians. I feel their pain at being suddenly in the minority. However, though I generally like people and most people I know are Christian, I find I don't much like many Christians on this forum. The trend in Christians here is towards trolls, though we have and have had many fine exceptions. We also have borderline cases who have come to convert covertly, and become angry, hurt and belligerent in turns when they discover this is not a Christian recruiting group.
Having dealt with Huggy for a few months I have every sympathy with Parker, whether I behave like him or not. If you search Huggy's posts you might reach a similar conclusion. What exactly do YOU take issue with? I have very little interaction with you.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 18, 2015 at 11:50 pm
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2015 at 11:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:'m sorry, I don't understand these questions. Can you rephrase?
Not a problem.
The catholic church has a position on contraception. In this thread you've asked us "what -is- good, and how do we determine it?" You've also stated (iirc) that god helps you to understand -why- things are good (or bad, ostensibly).
What is your moral assessment of the churches position on contraception*? Is it moral, or immoral...is it "good" or "bad"...and how do you know that, how has god helped you to understand -why- it is good or bad (whichever you go with)...and would you share that -why- with us?
The additional bit, in parenthesis at the bottom, essentially asked you how you take these questions when they are asked -of you-, and your experience with this conversation up to this point. You might be feeling a little bit of what we feel in this conversation...you might be having a common experience with us, right now. So...what is it like?
*More academically, the church refers to natural law....and gods disgust for the act, but is something right simply because it is natural law, and does god's disgust actually form a proper moral justification?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 18, 2015 at 11:51 pm
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 18, 2015 at 11:55 pm
(June 15, 2015 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: This is kind of a spinoff of the WHY BE GOOD thread. 
The question I have for atheists, isn't "why by good." I think it's simplistic and deeply flawed to think that the only reason to "be good" is to avoid Hell. And of course, I believe that anyone can be a good person regardless of beliefs.
The question I have for atheists is how do we know what IS good?
Religious or not, we all somehow know that certain things are intrinsically, universally immoral. Let's use murder as an obvious example. So if murder is wrong, where did this law come from? If this is a universal truth, where did this truth come from and who/what determined it to be what it is?
I don't believe murder is always wrong. I also disagree when you say that there is an intrinsic morality, you live on a world where there are pacifists who wouldn't hurt a fly, and others who have insane blood lust and kill without remorse.
I guarantee even on this forum there will be a vast spectrum of what people believe is right or wrong so I wonder how you could come to the conclusion that some things are universally known to be right or wrong?
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 18, 2015 at 11:56 pm
Humans determine what is good on a case-by-case basis. So long as we are trying to be good and trying to be thoughtful then there's hope for us. When we don't try we don't usually go as far as 'evil', but selfishness, greed and even rudeness are by-products of not trying (in my opinion).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. ~ George Bernard Shaw
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 19, 2015 at 12:00 am
(June 18, 2015 at 11:50 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Not a problem.
The catholic church has a position on contraception. In this thread you've asked us "what -is- good, and how do we determine it?" You;ve also stated that god helps you to understand -why- things are good (or bad, ostensibly).
What is your moral assessment of the churches position on contraception? Is it moral, or immoral...is it "good" or "bad"...and how do you know that, how has god helped you to understand -why- it is good or bad (whichever you go with)...and would you share that -why- withus ?
Thanks for the clarification. I understand now.
I agree with the Church's position on contraception. It isn't that avoiding pregnancy is wrong, in and of itself, it's the means you go about doing it. Fertility monitoring is moral, but artificial contraception is not.
We believe sex is a sacred act that should remain in its pure form, and contraception changes a major aspect of that act by physically taking away a natural aspect of it... its fertility.
The notion that sex is sacred makes sense to me because it is the act that brings new life into the world. That's not its only purpose (love and bonding are another purpose), but it still is one of its purposes. An act that can create new life is a sacred act because life is sacred. And sacred things should be handled with care and kept as their pure, authentic selves.
I know you don't agree, and that is perfectly fine. But there you have it. Those are my reasons. 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 19, 2015 at 12:03 am
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2015 at 12:05 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 19, 2015 at 12:06 am
(This post was last modified: June 19, 2015 at 12:13 am by Catholic_Lady.)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 19, 2015 at 12:14 am
(June 18, 2015 at 1:02 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Abstinence doesn't work. It's a fact.
Well, I don't know how things are with your spouse, but every time I didn't have sex with my wife, she didn't get pregnant.
Abstinence worked perfectly every time!
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