Why are we here?

[abaris]

You are right, I have been brought up believing as I do. That does not make a bit of difference in the truth claim though. Each religion needs to be a) weighed on whether it is internally consistent, b) consistent with our observations of the world, c) has a well-defined image of God (tying that all back to a and b), and d) bears fruit.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, I bet you don't have every other religion scrutinized to see if they fit every last detail of your shopping list.

[SteveII]

You are right, I have been brought up believing as I do. That does not make a bit of difference in the truth claim though. Each religion needs to be a) weighed on whether it is internally consistent, b) consistent with our observations of the world, c) has a well-defined image of God (tying that all back to a and b), and d) bears fruit.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, I bet you don't have every other religion scrutinized to see if they fit every last detail of your shopping list.

Actually, it's pretty quick. I believe you are looking for a mono-theistic religion. Of the three majors, I don't have a problem with Judaism but I think they missed the NT and adding the NT makes much more sense of the OT. The other, Islam, I believe has serious problems with a consistent character of God and Mohammad was seriously flawed.

[Tonus]

Another thing about punishment, hell is a place of separation from God. It is a consequence of not searching for a relationship with God.

That doesn't sound like punishment to me.

[KevinM1]

What's funny is that when theists are questioned about this, they generally pull the, "Well, without god, you wouldn't be here!" card.  Okay, the same can be said about my mother, but I don't worship her.  She doesn't demand that I do, and she doesn't gravely punish me for not doing it.

Do you put your mother on par with the infinite (which you cannot even comprehend what that means) creator of the universe? If so, she is worthy of worship.

No.  Then again, even if there were an infinite creator of the universe, I wouldn't worship it.  I find worship to be an abhorrent concept in and of itself.

[SteveII]

Do you put your mother on par with the infinite (which you cannot even comprehend what that means) creator of the universe? If so, she is worthy of worship.

No.  Then again, even if there were an infinite creator of the universe, I wouldn't worship it.  I find worship to be an abhorrent concept in and of itself.

And you can thank your free will that you don't have to do something abhorrent. Doesn't do anything for the possible consequences though.

[KevinM1]

No.  Then again, even if there were an infinite creator of the universe, I wouldn't worship it.  I find worship to be an abhorrent concept in and of itself.

And you can thank your free will that you don't have to do something abhorrent. Doesn't do anything for the possible consequences though.

Any god that would punish me for not worshiping it isn't one that anyone should worship.

[SteveII]

Another thing about punishment, hell is a place of separation from God. It is a consequence of not searching for a relationship with God.

That doesn't sound like punishment to me.

It depends on what the consequences of a total separation from God might be to one's soul.

[SteveII]

And you can thank your free will that you don't have to do something abhorrent. Doesn't do anything for the possible consequences though.

Any god that would punish me for not worshiping it isn't one that anyone should worship.

You are missing the point. YOU decided not to mend the relationship that YOUR sin damaged. You cannot be in the presence of God (heaven) without mending that relationship. This is the consequence of your free will--God cannot mend it for you--it MUST be your choice.

[Tonus]

That doesn't sound like punishment to me.

It depends on what the consequences of a total separation from God might be to one's soul.

I think it would have more meaning if there was a consensus on what hell is, and what separation from god means, and so on. The explanations for hell have gone from a fairly straightforward idea (you burn in torment as if suffering from extreme physical pain) to something ambiguous. Where does my soul end up if I go to hell? Is it a literal place, like heaven? What form does my suffering take? What activities are possible?

I ignore any and all gods until one should happen to show up. Am I separated from god now? Because if my life is hell, then it's not a very unpleasant place at all. What is it about hell that would make me turn to god in desperate terror if I ever understood what it was?

[KevinM1]

Any god that would punish me for not worshiping it isn't one that anyone should worship.

You are missing the point. YOU decided not to mend the relationship that YOUR sin damaged. You cannot be in the presence of God (heaven) without mending that relationship. This is the consequence of your free will--God cannot mend it for you--it MUST be your choice.

No, no, I get your point.  It's just the same drivel all Christians write.  Here, I'll make it clear for you:

Any god that would punish someone with an eternity of pain and torture for a finite crime is a tyrant.  Any god that would demand belief over everything else, especially when they provide absolutely 0 credible, verifiable evidence for its existence, and therefore considers unbelief to be among the worst sins, is a psychopath.  Neither trait engenders the desire to join its flock.

Really, the "repent now!" stuff is incredibly childish.  It's the religious version of "do you want me to tell your father when he gets home?"  I'm not six years old any more.  Your vague threats of eternal damnation or else only serve to solidify the idea that your god is something I'd much rather work against than with/for.