If everyone was atheist

[tonechaser77]

Do I think religion has been used to do good? Yes. 
Do I think that someone can do good without religion? Yes. 
Do I think religion has been used as a cause to advance many horrifying acts? Yes. 
Do I think religion has clouded our judgement and caused us to focus overtly on what's after this instead of focusing on the here-and-now? Yes. 
Do I think focus on what is after this life is meaningful? No, given that we have no evidence that can be scientifically tested or does not have a natural explanation. 

However, even after all this I am still agnostic to the question. As we have evolved we have learned how easily our brains play tricks on us. Some people are not as strong as others and need a crutch...this is why, at this time, I do not entirely disregard all religion. But as long as there is a crutch to lean on, we will never know if we can learn to walk uprightly without it.    The rest is purely conjecture and speculation.

[Longhorn]

1. We've been over this question. ;-)

And you haven't provided an answer. Why christianity?

2. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I don't think there's anything to lose.

Yea. Just time, money and effort.

3. Not at all.  I don't think that just because someone doesn't believe something, that it isn't true.

That's not the case.

There are 21 major religious groups in existence today. Christianity is one and it has 44,000 denominations.

There are 2 billion christians in the world.

That's 2/6. It's 1/3. 33% is hardly a good result of something that is supposedly the truth.

If your specific version of this specific gods really wants us to believe, he's doing a terrible job.

If it's the truth, we should be able to teach that conclusion without having to be indoctrinated into it.

How can you simultaneously believe you're right in the same beliefs your parents taught you and acknowledge that parents decide over what the child believes?

4. Probably because they will never be told? Lol. This is rare. The vast majority of people in civilized societies have/will.

But there are people who won't. What with them? Hell?

I will teach them what I believe. When they reach a certain age, they will most likely seek deeper reasons to believe than "just because mom and dad told me about it." They will then either choose to stick with it, or take a different road.

That's not what will most likely happen unless you teach them critical thinking.

Hint: teaching them to believe is not teaching them critical thinking. Those two are mutually exclusive.

I wasn't, just hadn't gotten to it yet. :-)

You seem to do it a lot. You still haven't told me how you solve the problem of infinite regress.

Yes, that's what I said lol. "Family influences can play a big role in people's perception of things." I am no different.

I'd like to think I would, but who knows. Probably not.

Most likely not. Most likely you would have never even considered it had you been born in Saudi Arabia or Jordan.

So you don't see any problem with the fact you only believe your religion to be true because your parents told you it is?

[robvalue]

CL: If you have children, would you allow them to reach the age of reason (around 7 or so I think) to develop unbiased critical thinking skills before you introduce them to religious doctrine?

[Catholic_Lady]

CL: If you have children, would you allow them to reach the age of reason (around 7 or so I think) to develop unbiased critical thinking skills before you introduce them to religious doctrine?

No, I don't see a reason to wait until they are 7 before introducing anything. Obviously they will be too young to understand much more than the bare minimums at that time, so most of it will come with time as they get older. I'd say this is how it was with my family.

[robvalue]

OK. I won't comment further, unless you want me to. I'm sure you will raise them to be good people

[Catholic_Lady]

1. We've been over this question. ;-)

And you haven't provided an answer. Why christianity?

We've gone over this... refer back to your PMs! ;-)

2. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I don't think there's anything to lose.

Yea. Just time, money and effort.

If it has improved my quality of life and made me happier, than I don't think any of those things were a waste.

3. Not at all.  I don't think that just because someone doesn't believe something, that it isn't true.

That's not the case.

There are 21 major religious groups in existence today. Christianity is one and it has 44,000 denominations.

There are 2 billion christians in the world.

That's 2/6. It's 1/3. 33% is hardly a good result of something that is supposedly the truth.

If your specific version of this specific gods really wants us to believe, he's doing a terrible job.

If it's the truth, we should be able to teach that conclusion without having to be indoctrinated into it.

How can you simultaneously believe you're right in the same beliefs your parents taught you and acknowledge that parents decide over what the child believes?

I'm sorry but I don't understand your logic.

You're saying that since 33% (as opposed to a larger #) of the population is Christian, then it must not be true. I don't see how that's a good argument, I'm sorry. A lot of people don't believe or know about a lot of things they were not taught. Evolution being one of them. It doesn't mean it isn't true.

4. Probably because they will never be told? Lol. This is rare. The vast majority of people in civilized societies have/will.

But there are people who won't. What with them? Hell?

No, I don't believe so. A person can still live a life of virtue without knowing God. I don't believe these people are going to Hell.

I will teach them what I believe. When they reach a certain age, they will most likely seek deeper reasons to believe than "just because mom and dad told me about it." They will then either choose to stick with it, or take a different road.

That's not what will most likely happen unless you teach them critical thinking.

Hint: teaching them to believe is not teaching them critical thinking. Those two are mutually exclusive.

Religious people can have critical thinking too, you know. ;-) I disagree that having a religion automatically makes a person not have critical thinking skills. On this it looks like we will just have to agree to disagree.

I wasn't, just hadn't gotten to it yet. :-)

You seem to do it a lot. You still haven't told me how you solve the problem of infinite regress.

I apologize if I have missed it. I don't know what that is.

Yes, that's what I said lol. "Family influences can play a big role in people's perception of things." I am no different.  

I'd like to think I would, but who knows. Probably not.

Most likely not. Most likely you would have never even considered it had you been born in Saudi Arabia or Jordan.

So you don't see any problem with the fact you only believe your religion to be true because your parents told you it is?

I do see a problem with that. I think people need to make sure they believe what they do for reasons other than just "my mom told me."

[Whateverist]

Yeah, it isn't any worse than gay couples raising their kids to be gay. (Wait, none that I know actually do that.) Live and let live should be our motto. And lets leave the programming of pre-reason children to those who can demonstate their property rights over the young.

[Catholic_Lady]

OK. I won't comment further, unless you want me to. I'm sure you will raise them to be good people

Thanks! I think at the end of the day that's all that should matter to everyone else.

---

Yeah, it isn't any worse than gay couples raising their kids to be gay.  (Wait, none that I know actually do that.)  Live and let live should be our motto.  And lets leave the programming of pre-reason children to those who can demonstate their property rights over the young.

You can't teach someone to be attracted to the same sex. Either they are, or they aren't. It isn't chosen or learned.

[Longhorn]

If it has improved my quality of life and made me happier, than I don't think any of those things were a waste.

Well, it destroyed mine. I think it is a waste.

I'm sorry but I don't understand your logic.

You're saying that since 33% (as opposed to a larger #) of the population is Christian, then it must not be true. I don't see how that's a good argument, I'm sorry. A lot of people don't believe or know about a lot of things they were not taught. Evolution being one of them. It doesn't mean it isn't true.

We're talking about an omnipotent god who wants us to worship him. You'd think he'd make sure everybody got the memo, wouldn't you?

No, I don't believe so. A person can still live a life of virtue without knowing God. I don't believe these people are going to Hell.

Oh, but you said morality comes from god.

Religious people can have critical thinking too, you know. ;-) I disagree that having a religion automatically makes a person not have critical thinking skills. On this it looks like we will just have to agree to disagree.

Not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth.

I said that teaching critical thinking skills and teaching to believe a certain religion are mutually exclusive. Which they are. Teaching the conclusion and teaching to arrive at conclusions by way of reasoning are mutually exclusive.

I apologize if I have missed it. I don't know what that is.

God needs to have a cause. Who designed the designer?

I do see a problem with that. I think people need to make sure they believe what they do for reasons other than just "my mom told me."

Yea. One way to do that us to not tell them what to believe.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm sorry but I don't understand your logic.  

You're saying that since 33% (as opposed to a larger #) of the population is Christian, then it must not be true. I don't see how that's a good argument, I'm sorry. A lot of people don't believe or know about a lot of things they were not taught. Evolution being one of them. It doesn't mean it isn't true.

We're talking about an omnipotent god who wants us to worship him. You'd think he'd make sure everybody got the memo, wouldn't you?

I believe that He's not a micromanager. He leaves it up to us Christians to spread the word.

No, I don't believe so. A person can still live a life of virtue without knowing God. I don't believe these people are going to Hell.

Oh, but you said morality comes from god.

I'm sorry but it looks as though you misunderstood. I never said that. What I said was that I believe God created the concept of morality. Not that people can't be moral unless they believe in God.

Religious people can have critical thinking too, you know. ;-) I disagree that having a religion automatically makes a person not have critical thinking skills. On this it looks like we will just have to agree to disagree.

Not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth.

I said that teaching critical thinking skills and teaching to believe a certain religion are mutually exclusive. Which they are. Teaching the conclusion and teaching to arrive at conclusions by way of reasoning are mutually exclusive.

My apologies. I misunderstood.

I should correctly say that a person can still be taught to use critical thinking skills, even if they are taught a particular faith. There are other subjects to learn from besides religion, where they will learn to use their critical thinking to come up with the right answers. Adding religion in there doesn't take away someone's ability to learn and use critical thinking.

I apologize if I have missed it. I don't know what that is.

God needs to have a cause. Who designed the designer?

I believe God is supernatural and isn't confined to the laws of nature. I believe He has always existed and was not designed by anyone.

I do see a problem with that. I think people need to make sure they believe what they do for reasons other than just "my mom told me."

Yea. One way to do that us to not tell them what to believe.

Sure, but teaching them about my faith, like teaching them anything else, won't automatically mean that they'll just blindly follow. I would encourage them to make sure they believe for themselves and not just because I told them.