My experience in the catholic church

[SteelCurtain]

Because of the guilt. She's been taught that it's all her fault her whole life.

[Regina]

I guess so, you can really see it still affects her with how she was with my Dad and his sisters. She's so overprotective of them and my Dad's death has sent her into a deep depression (kind of understandably, but severely), I'm worried tbh. Life really has been shit to her.

[SteelCurtain]

Life really has been shit to her.

Just make sure you take every opportunity to tell her how much she's worth, and show her (as much as you can) how good life can be.

[rexbeccarox]

This was all happening in the UK by this point so there weren't any real consequences. However, my Nan herself was born out of wedlock, was taken off her mother, and grew up in a convent until she was eventually adopted. Never found her real mother until she was an adult, it's really sad. Makes me wonder how she is still so Catholic to this day with how fucked over her life has been by it.

That is really sad, Yeaux.

[Longhorn]

Makes me wonder how she is still so Catholic to this day with how fucked over her life has been by it.

Stockholm, my friend. Fucking Stockholm.

[robvalue]

My condolences to everyone who has had to go through all that suffering at the hands of the Catholic Church

I firmly believe teaching any kind of unscientific mythology as actual fact to children is wrong, especially when they are so young as to be defenceless against it and will most likely soak it up without question. If any of this shit was real, then it should make no odds to let people develop first, get a grip on reality and how to reason with things they actually need to know at that point, and then present it to them. Even then, I'd much prefer it if people presented it as belief and not fact. Presenting anyone with a "fact" that you can't even vaguely demonstrate has any truth at all is dishonest and potentially harmful. Especially when they are relying on you to learn about everything.

Are people scared to let their kids get too wise and so might not accept all the fairy stories as told? I understand some parents really think a young child needs to know about religion. I couldn't disagree more. For one thing, the content is utterly unsuitable. So this is either going to be traumatising, or else a false fuzzy happy misrepresentation of the doctrine "for the kids". It's fucked up, either way. And what good is "Jesus' love" to a child learning about the world? And is God already chalking up sins ready for later blackmail at a young age? If not, why tell them about any of it at that point except as a pathetic excuse for parenting and discipline? Sure, there are some facts you need to present to children that you can't fully explain to them yet, for their own good, such as the oven burns you etc. But to say the mythology is in the same category as this is bogus because (a) it has no demonstrable effect on anything and (b) you won't be able to give them a demonstration and explanation of why it is true later. So spare me the torturous false analogies.

I wish society could reach an agreement about not indoctrinating children, but instead educating them. Even if you're talking to your 3 year old, do you have the guts to own your beliefs?

"Mummy believes that Jesus loves you" rather than simply "Jesus loves you."

That's the difference between indoctrination and expressing (quite possibly inappropriate) opinions and beliefs. At least this way, they can ask, "Why do you think that Mummy?"

I guess people don't want to be answering that question, since they generally can't give a sensible answer to a forum full of adults who are well educated on critical thinking and theology.

[Longhorn]

Get 'em while they're young Rob.

Get 'em, brainwash them and make sure to traumatise the living shit out of them so they never dare to question what you're saying.

Most kids indoctrinated that way will pass it on to their children. It's a vicious cycle, unless somebody breaks it.

I'm all for religious freedom, but not child abuse freedom.

[robvalue]

Indeed

Whether or not it is considered willful abuse, the similarities between indoctrination and psychological abuse are clear. People need to understand this. By the time someone can fully reason for themselves, they shouldn't have to decide whether to stay in the web of supernatural stories that they have been wrapped up in, or to fight their way out and accept the social and psychological consequences.

Religion gets away with all of this due to its intangible and privileged nature.

I'm not against religion, I'm against the harm religion does. And this is quite clearly one of those harms. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs their head checked. Of course, the degree of damage will depend on the degree and type of indoctrination.