Disproving The Resurrection By The Maximal Facts Approach

[Minimalist]

And that proves..?

Pascal was a drunken old sot?

[Cyberman]

Could be. Could very well be.

[Minimalist]

I would love ONE fact.  Just one.

[Longhorn]

Don't get too comfortable, my friend. God may yet surprise you. On 23 November 1654, between 10:30 and 12:30 at night, Blaise Pascal had an intense religious vision and immediately recorded the experience in a brief note to himself:

+

The year of grace 1654, Monday, 23 November, feast of St. Clement, pope and martyr, and others in the martyrology.
Vigil of St. Chrysogonus, martyr, and others.
From about half past ten at night until about half past midnight,

FIRE.

GOD of Abraham, GOD of Isaac, GOD of Jacob
not of the philosophers and of the learned.
Certitude. Certitude. Feeling. Joy. Peace.
GOD of Jesus Christ.
My God and your God.
Your GOD will be my God.
Forgetfulness of the world and of everything, except GOD.
He is only found by the ways taught in the Gospel.
Grandeur of the human soul.
Righteous Father, the world has not known you, but I have known you.
Joy, joy, joy, tears of joy.
I have departed from him:
They have forsaken me, the fount of living water.
My God, will you leave me?
Let me not be separated from him forever.
This is eternal life, that they know you, the one true God, and the one that you sent, Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ.
I left him; I fled him, renounced, crucified.
Let me never be separated from him.
He is only kept securely by the ways taught in the Gospel:
Renunciation, total and sweet.
Complete submission to Jesus Christ and to my director.
Eternally in joy for a day's exercise on the earth.
May I not forget your words. Amen.


He seems to have carefully sewn this document into his coat and always transferred it when he changed clothes; a servant discovered it only by chance after his death. This piece is now known as the Memorial.

Oh goodie. I'm so glad you mentioned that, Randy. God talked to me too. And I took notes too. So I'm just as qualified to present it as evidence as your Pascal.

Do you think your faith can stand what I wrote down?

[Cyberman]

Anyone remember that dream I spoke about once, where "God" told me "he" doesn’t exist?

[Randy Carson]

Don't get too comfortable, my friend. God may yet surprise you. On 23 November 1654, between 10:30 and 12:30 at night, Blaise Pascal had an intense religious vision and immediately recorded the experience in a brief note to himself:

+

The year of grace 1654, Monday, 23 November, feast of St. Clement, pope and martyr, and others in the martyrology.
Vigil of St. Chrysogonus, martyr, and others.
From about half past ten at night until about half past midnight,

FIRE.

GOD of Abraham, GOD of Isaac, GOD of Jacob
not of the philosophers and of the learned.
Certitude. Certitude. Feeling. Joy. Peace.
GOD of Jesus Christ.
My God and your God.
Your GOD will be my God.
Forgetfulness of the world and of everything, except GOD.
He is only found by the ways taught in the Gospel.
Grandeur of the human soul.
Righteous Father, the world has not known you, but I have known you.
Joy, joy, joy, tears of joy.
I have departed from him:
They have forsaken me, the fount of living water.
My God, will you leave me?
Let me not be separated from him forever.
This is eternal life, that they know you, the one true God, and the one that you sent, Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ.
I left him; I fled him, renounced, crucified.
Let me never be separated from him.
He is only kept securely by the ways taught in the Gospel:
Renunciation, total and sweet.
Complete submission to Jesus Christ and to my director.
Eternally in joy for a day's exercise on the earth.
May I not forget your words. Amen.


He seems to have carefully sewn this document into his coat and always transferred it when he changed clothes; a servant discovered it only by chance after his death. This piece is now known as the Memorial.

Oh goodie. I'm so glad you mentioned that, Randy. God talked to me too. And I took notes too. So I'm just as qualified to present it as evidence as your Pascal.

Do you think your faith can stand what I wrote down?

I have promised to shoot straight with you. I will read whatever you care to post.

I may not agree that what you heard was from God, however. There are other spiritual beings at work in this world.

[Longhorn]

Yea, no. I'm not going to post it in the open forum anyhow, but if you're just going to dismiss it, I'm not gonna share something as personal. It's basically the same conversation in both threads we're doing. You'd only accept evidence that confirms your claim, despite it being equally real to the evidence against it.

[Randy Carson]

Yea, no. I'm not going to post it in the open forum anyhow, but if you're just going to dismiss it, I'm not gonna share something as personal. It's basically the same conversation in both threads we're doing. You'd only accept evidence that confirms your claim, despite it being equally real to the evidence against it.

How would I know whether I'm going to dismiss it until I hear it?

I might think, "Wow. Neimenovic really had a dramatic experience with God." Or I might think you were attacked by a demon.

Dunno. But it's your call. You have my PM address if you need it.

[Minimalist]

I may not agree that what you heard was from God, however.

What a coincidence.  We tend to regard your personal delusions as not "from god" either.  See how that works?

[popsthebuilder]

How would you know, or be able to dismiss his testimony when you cannot relate to it? Really you can't even question it.

The wrong side of the coin is always observable if you look closely. Trust me. One knows which end of the spectrum from which on outside thing comes into the mind. Or even a thing from inside.