Quote:I was once that pig and if someone hadn't taken the time to show me the basics of critical thinking, I would still be holding on to my irrational beliefs. So, I disagree that it is all in vain.
Talk to G-C for a while.
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Current time: January 3, 2025, 4:18 pm
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Critical thinking...or the lack thereof
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 Talk to G-C for a while. 
How many of us here used to be religious? A LOT. I agree with Tone: if his OP gets one person thinking, even if it's a lurker and we never hear from him or her, it's worth it.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
Although I really appreciate the OP, I can bet that every theist that posts here will claim that they do all those things,
For example, Dritch will claim that A/S/K fulfills step 3. Randy will claim that he has proven step 1. All theists will claim that step 4 is justified with the claim that god created the laws of physics, and that he can break them. I could go on. You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence. Quote:Randy will claim that he has proven step 1. And then trot out Tim to swear that he did!  (June 30, 2015 at 9:30 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Although I really appreciate the OP, I can bet that every theist that posts here will claim that they do all those things, ^ this ^
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
 (June 30, 2015 at 5:19 pm)tonechaser77 Wrote:(June 30, 2015 at 5:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: The forecast said it would be partly cloudy with a likelihood of them not paying attention to your good advice. To extend the weather metaphor ... I'm not trying to rain on your parade, brotha. But the theists at this forum are particularly addle-brained. Pearls, swine, etc, etc. 
I know. You speak from experience and I speak from hope. But it doesn't happen all at once. Most changes are a slow gradual nominal process.
**Crickets** -- God
I don't think a frontal assault very often deconverts anyone. From personal experience with the deconverted and from reading those who have ceased to believe, there are three ways people rise out of faith: either they have naturally inquiring minds and get there all on their own; or they are asked why they believe and left to mull over the inadequacy of the answer in peace; or they begin reading debates between the faithful and the skeptical and reach their own conclusion. If you attack head on they rationalize and entrench, leaving you with faithful attempting valiantly to defend genocide ever more faithful the further back into the corner they are pushed.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
 (June 30, 2015 at 11:46 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I don't think a frontal assault very often deconverts anyone. From personal experience with the deconverted and from reading those who have ceased to believe, there are three ways people rise out of faith: either they have naturally inquiring minds and get there all on their own; or they are asked why they believe and left to mull over the inadequacy of the answer in peace; or they begin reading debates between the faithful and the skeptical and reach their own conclusion. If you attack head on they rationalize and entrench, leaving you with faithful attempting valiantly to defend genocide ever more faithful the further back into the corner they are pushed. And when you read the stories of the atheists who became Christians, Jenny, what did you find to be the reasons for their conversions?  (July 1, 2015 at 1:54 am)Randy Carson Wrote: And when you read the stories of the atheists who became Christians, Jenny, what did you find to be the reasons for their conversions? A couple stories that I've read all had the same background: being raised by religious parents. Then it would be either: 1) rebelling against fundamentalist parents to later return to faith by personal revelation 2) the parents weren't practicing/devout, so lack of belief naturally followed; the return to belief was sparked by a personal revelation All the ones I've read converted due to a personal experience, a hallucination/dream/sudden realization etc. And all of them already had religious background. My sample size is too small to draw conclusions on a larger scale, but I'd say that it's quite peculiar that I've not encountered a person raised in unbelief who's had god convert him in person. Could it be that your god doesn't care about those lifelong unbelievers? Or is that because said infidels would have a hard time deciding which god has spoken to them? |
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