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why doesn't your deity protect my free will?
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 (July 7, 2015 at 1:49 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Well, theoretically you have gone your whole life without being kidnapped so by your own criteria some God has been protecting you. Have you been showing your devotion to some deity? Some people aren't as fortunate as I am though. There are people, even today, born into a life of slavery. I always found it curious that the actions of a deity could never be distinguished by someone actually putting the effort in or simply random chance. 
Some people would be so sick as to blame it on a "previous life". Buddhism has some good points, but also some absolutely fucked up ones.
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July 7, 2015 at 4:11 am
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2015 at 4:16 am by ReptilianPeon.)
It's funny listening to DawahMan talk about suffering. He says some people deserve to suffer and Allah will cause even some people who don't deserve to suffer to suffer. All this punishment seems so random but Allah loves to inflict pain upon the entire Ummah apparently so you must give DawahMan lots of money so he can continue to afford his lavish lifestyle.
Apparently watching porn is directly linked to the bloodshed of a child. The video is hilarious. And DawahMan does more of the fake crying routine. Lol, whatever happened to free will? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0HE921HGRrA  (July 6, 2015 at 2:13 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: Let's suppose I was kidnapped. That would mean I can't go to the place of worship, I may not be able to read the religious text and I have free will taken away from me. The 'lesser of two evils' is to prevent me from being kidnapped. The deity demonstrates its existence, I have my free will preserved and a person(s) is prevented from committing a sin. It's a win for everyone involved. I've got a better story, this guy didn't like Jews, but god didn't step in and effect his free will or anyone else involved in this. The guy got elected Chancellor of Germany, again god wouldn't step in and affect anyone's free will. So he sends millions of Jews to the gas chambers, again god couldn't have convinced him to maybe deport them? Millions of Jews, and many others, die while begging and pleading for this god to save them. God doesn't answer a single prayer and millions die, good job god, you're a dick! Or perfectly non-existant.
Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
 RE: why doesn't your deity protect my free will?
July 7, 2015 at 11:27 am
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2015 at 11:32 am by Excited Penguin.)
The concept of free will is impossible to imagine, let alone describe reality. So no, you wouldn't have free will not even if god existed. How exactly is it any different if god helped you or if a kidnapper took you? They both intervened in your life anyway. But that's not the point. Without a god, there is no free will because the world causes itself, if you know what I mean, none of us are independent of anything else to be able to say" I am free to do what I want" - no we aren't, we just like to believe we are, because otherwise we'd all probably end up depressed or smth. Anything and everything you do is not of your own volition, but it is rather a build-up in your environment, genes and finally in your brain that you know pretty much nothing about and can't really change. We truly have absolutely no power over the universe and what will happen in it, nothing and nobody does or can have power over anything, but it's funny to have the illusion, isn't it?
So that's another concept the theists majorly fucked-up with. I mean, seriously, if there was a god, free will would be even more ridiculous to imagine then it already is. How could you have free will if everything in the world was created a certain way, at a certain point in time, and therefore it's all 'predetermined'(which is true even without taking into account the concept of god) and not only that but it can be changed at divine will(at least from a theistic point of view). I recommend Sam Harris' short book Free Will, to those who still doubt it. Actually, you can even watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g
It's not even a given that we do have free will. It's far from settled scientifically. It's far from even defined properly in a way people can agree on!
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July 7, 2015 at 1:32 pm
(This post was last modified: July 7, 2015 at 1:35 pm by Excited Penguin.)
(July 7, 2015 at 11:29 am)robvalue Wrote: It's not even a given that we do have free will. It's far from settled scientifically. It's far from even defined properly in a way people can agree on!It won't ever be "settled". For it to be settled we would have to possess an intelligence capable of understanding the universe in it's most intrinsic details and then make up our minds one way or the other. It's rather simply as unscientific and nonsensical a notion as God is. You don't see science trying to define and discuss God now, do you? Besides, I get my knowledge on the subject from a neuroscientist who actually did work on the subject and is also a philosopher, albeit by his own opinion. 
Free will doesn't exist in christianity.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
Code: <iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/255506953&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true"></iframe> (July 7, 2015 at 2:18 pm)dyresand Wrote: Free will doesn't exist in christianity. What makes you say that? 
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.  (July 6, 2015 at 2:13 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: Let's suppose I was kidnapped. That would mean I can't go to the place of worship, I may not be able to read the religious text and I have free will taken away from me. The 'lesser of two evils' is to prevent me from being kidnapped. The deity demonstrates its existence, I have my free will preserved and a person(s) is prevented from committing a sin. It's a win for everyone involved. You got kidnapped, your being held at a different location than you live. At 2:00 AM the place you live blows up from a natural gas leak, if you had been there you would have die. the kidnappers are unsure what is happening and let you go because they became very nervous about the situation. You live happily ever after.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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