It's a Great Day in South Carolina

[Thumpalumpacus]

So basically it represents racism against blacks? Well, that's some though shit.

I think there are some people for whom it truly represents something besides racism, but I also believe they're a minority, and if they had a little more empathy, they would realize it should not be displayed on the State House grounds with the imprimature of the State.

I think the majority of the Rebel Yell crowd don't associate it with their own racism. I also think that in their own heads, most of them don't think of themselves as racist at all.

Your comment about empathy is spot-on. So often messages are non-verbal. I can only imagine that the message of that flag, placed there again in 1962 in response to the drive for equal rights, must sear the minds of any black folk laying eyes on it. I can only imagine, because I've never been in those shoes, and never will be.

That is what Stars-and-Bars supporters need to get through their heads: their own experiences aren't the only ones that matter.

[Minimalist]

Confederate flag being taken down permanently from the State House grounds tomorrow morning, 10 AM.

I imagine most of the fuckers feel like Pickett.

[Nope]

South Carolina has not always flown the flag. The state’s first modern hoisting of the standard came in 1961, as part of official commemorations of the centennial anniversary of the beginning of the Civil War. As K. Michael Prince notes in his book about the relationship between the state and the flag, Rally ’round the Flag, Boys!, the celebrations kicked off in Charleston, where the fighting had begun 100 years earlier. The flag’s place at the Capitol was officially confirmed by the state legislature the following year.

Still many historians say the appearance of the flag likely had a more nefarious purpose: to symbolize Southern defiance in the face of a burgeoning Civil Rights Movement. The move was, TIME later noted, “a states’-rights rebuff to desegregation.

http://time.com/3930464/south-carolina-c...flag-1962/

I did not know that SC didn't fly the Confederate flag until the Civil Right's movement in the sixties.

[vorlon13]

I have a relative that only flies his on MLK's birthday, and following both of Obama presidential wins.

I think it's pretty clear what he thinks.

[Minimalist]

I'll bet this will be #1 on the Hit Parade in Charleston by nightfall.

[Regina]

This is great news Another middle finger moment for the conservative right

[Brakeman]

Hey Americans what's the big deal about this flag? Is it a symbol of imperialism or something? Weren't the States a confederation before becoming by mutual consent a federation?

It's the battle standard for states which seceded in defense of a state's right to maintain the legal chattel slavery of black Americans.

Well, yes that is only partially true.  Most confederates did not own slaves. That was relegated to a smaller, wealthy minority. Most Confederates fought to uphold their bible beliefs, that "if god said slavery is ok, then enslaving people that you feel racially superior to is a god given right." It was over the bible that "Son fought against son" not over politics or "state's rights."

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, yes that is only partially true.  Most confederates did not own slaves. That was relegated to a smaller, wealthy minority. Most Confederates fought to uphold their bible beliefs, that "if god said slavery is ok, then enslaving people that you feel racially superior to is a god given right." It was over the bible that "Son fought against son" not over politics or "state's rights."

Yes, I know that most Confederate citizens didn't own slaves. Most Americans don't own stock in Halliburton, either. Does that mean that the 2003 invasion of Iraq wasn't disingenuous?

Read the Confederate Constitution. You'll find that the slavery was protected by law. And if you read history, you'll find that the Confederacy seceded because it was being pinched off into a political minority by geographical facts: slavery was not acceptable in the northern plains, but the Desert Southwest prevented its expansion to the Pacific. Because of that brute fact, Southern states understood that they would soon be outvoted in Congress as to the legitimacy of the institution of slavery. The Presidential campaign of 1860 was about that for this reason.

The Confederate foot soldiers were certainly sold a line of bullshit about why they should fight, no doubt -- but just because they didn't own any slaves themselves doesn't mean that the bullshit wasn't bullshit. It only means that the soldiery was naive. The Bible was the prop, not the raison d'etre.

[Minimalist]

There is really only one problem with the theater piece being played out in South Carolina.

They think they have solved the problem and they haven't.

[Anomalocaris]

Confederate flag being taken down permanently from the State House grounds tomorrow morning, 10 AM.

I imagine most of the fuckers feel like Pickett.

Conservatives have always had reason to feel like Pickett.  After all Pickett was ranked 59th in a class of 59 at west point.