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RE: street epistemology
December 16, 2015 at 5:46 pm
(December 16, 2015 at 5:13 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: (December 16, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Delicate Wrote: So, no evidence for what you believe?
As you have been told dozens of times here - the evidence must be provided by the person making the claim. That's you. We have stated the reasons for our skeptic stance repeatedly. If you believe god exists, the burden of proof falls on you to provide measurable, verifiable, scientific evidence. Books and stories and philosophies and musings on the state of whatever is not evidence. A list of laughable logical fallacies is not evidence.
So I'm done with you, until you provide real proof. You can pat yourself on the back and tell yourself more lies about how you "won", and how stupid atheists are. You will anyway. Trying to explain a simple lack of belief in deities to you is about as worthwhile as trying to nail jello to the wall.
Aren't you making the claim that everything you believe is based on scientific evidence and data?
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RE: street epistemology
December 16, 2015 at 5:49 pm
(December 16, 2015 at 5:46 pm)Delicate Wrote: (December 16, 2015 at 5:13 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: As you have been told dozens of times here - the evidence must be provided by the person making the claim. That's you. We have stated the reasons for our skeptic stance repeatedly. If you believe god exists, the burden of proof falls on you to provide measurable, verifiable, scientific evidence. Books and stories and philosophies and musings on the state of whatever is not evidence. A list of laughable logical fallacies is not evidence.
So I'm done with you, until you provide real proof. You can pat yourself on the back and tell yourself more lies about how you "won", and how stupid atheists are. You will anyway. Trying to explain a simple lack of belief in deities to you is about as worthwhile as trying to nail jello to the wall.
Aren't you making the claim that everything you believe is based on scientific evidence and data?
That's not belief. That is simply acceptance of known facts. Facts that can be replicated by anyone in any corner of the globe and still come up with the same conclusions.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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RE: street epistemology
December 16, 2015 at 6:10 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6AbuFKu...t57oh_yL5r
This is sweet. Even though he still stuck with his belief when asked about it at the end, the interview in itself was awesome and you can actually see a transformation there.
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RE: street epistemology
December 16, 2015 at 7:14 pm
(December 16, 2015 at 5:45 pm)Delicate Wrote: (December 16, 2015 at 5:10 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I'm not sure what part of that was a "sermon", or what claims I've made (according to you) which are unsubstantiated. I'm not being funny, here; you genuinely lost me with that response.
Perhaps you'd like to clarify? In that case, I'd be happy to respond.
Go your post and look at what was asserted baldly without evidence.
I'm genuinely skeptical of most of it.
Good. Skepticism is applauded around here.
But the fact remains that I have no idea specifically to which parts you object. Be kind enough to specify, and I will do my best to explain.
Otherwise you're just playing rhetorical games.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: street epistemology
December 16, 2015 at 7:25 pm
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RE: street epistemology
December 16, 2015 at 7:26 pm
I'm sorry, I don't mean to derail the thread with these videos. Is anyone bothered by these? I would be more than happy to make a different thread for posting them.
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RE: street epistemology
December 21, 2015 at 5:41 pm
(December 16, 2015 at 5:49 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: (December 16, 2015 at 5:46 pm)Delicate Wrote: Aren't you making the claim that everything you believe is based on scientific evidence and data?
That's not belief. That is simply acceptance of known facts. Facts that can be replicated by anyone in any corner of the globe and still come up with the same conclusions.
"It's not belief."
So you wouldn't say you believe known facts?
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RE: street epistemology
December 21, 2015 at 5:45 pm
(December 16, 2015 at 8:46 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Delicate, are you really not tired of repeating the same lie, over and again?
Most of the board members here are former Christians, and we understand the religion quite well, especially now that we're on the outside looking back at the reasons we once chose to believe. I would suggest, then, that it is you who fails to understand, because you blind yourself with the culture and thought-limitations imposed by any system of belief.
Atheism has no system of belief; it is the absence of a belief. You too are an atheist, with regard to all the other religions that we also don't believe in (e.g. Islam), and that lack of faith in the other religions is not a thing, for you, either. How hard is this to understand?
It is true that, as atheists, there are things we commonly accept, such as the findings of science, because we have no preset reason to reject those findings as tentatively true, and we believe them only to the degree that they are actually proved (or suspected of being true, based on inferences from data, a much lower level of acceptance... an example would be Dark Matter/Energy). But we do not have leaders, or even a true group identity-- we are as likely to disagree on every other subject as we are with you.
The one thing we do agree on is that your ideas about God are as transparent and false as all those other religions you already reject. You just can't see that the same thing applies to your own, and the mental programming you have installed on your operating system protects itself by keeping you from seeing it. One day, you may gain a greater understanding, as we did when we left Christianity behind.
You should also really work harder at not trying to tell us that faith is knowledge, when it is already defined in Hebrews 11:1 as "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." In other words, you simply believe it's a fact even though it's not detectable, and is actually just the product of your hope. That's pretty much the definition of imaginary.
In the meantime, by all means, keep insisting that it is we who have a lack of understanding. I'd be curious to know what part of Christianity you think I (and most of us here) fail to grasp. Vicarious atonement? Original (and heritable) sin?
Because you asked for specifics:
1. I'm skeptical of the claim that I'm repeating a lie. Evidence plz.
2. I'm skeptical of the claim that because some board members are former Christians, they understand the religion quite well. I find that to be false in my experience. How would you show you understand religion, when you constantly disagree with Christians on what Christianity teaches?
3. I'm skeptical that I blind myself with the culture and thought-limitations imposed by a system of belief. Evidence plz.
4. I'm skeptical that atheism has no system of belief. I don't mean the dictionary definition, I mean the sociological group.
5. I'm skeptical of the view that atheism is the absence of belief. We're discussing this in another thread.
I'll stop here. Don't want to draw it out too long.
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RE: street epistemology
December 21, 2015 at 5:46 pm
(December 15, 2015 at 4:18 pm)Delicate Wrote: That's why, to be perfectly honest, many intelligent people think you "village atheists" are an embarrassment.
Unintelligent people would say that. Unintelligent people don't recognize the intelligence of others. Many absolute idiots say "Atheists are stupid. I am smart." while being completely stupid themselves.
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RE: street epistemology
December 21, 2015 at 7:50 pm
(December 21, 2015 at 5:41 pm)Delicate Wrote: (December 16, 2015 at 5:49 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: That's not belief. That is simply acceptance of known facts. Facts that can be replicated by anyone in any corner of the globe and still come up with the same conclusions.
"It's not belief."
So you wouldn't say you believe known facts?
No. I accept them as facts. They are simply verified data. This does not require belief. Scientific facts are true no matter what I think.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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