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If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
#11
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 12:03 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: I forgot Daystar, do you believe in evolution? I thought I read that you don't. But that also doesn't fit with your moderation for me if thats the case. In the sense its another unexpected case for me. Its interesting if you indeed reject being religious and only believe in the bible and think "jesus was only a man". And yet still reject evolution. Do you?

I do not believe in evolution. Even long before I studied the Bible, when I was taught Evolution in school, I knew it was bullshit. I am not religious in that I would never belong to any organized religion. I do believe the Bible as the word of God and Jesus was only a man but also a mighty god (Isaiah 9:6) just as Moses and the judges of Israel were "gods."
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#12
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 2:49 pm)Daystar Wrote:
(December 3, 2008 at 12:03 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: I forgot Daystar, do you believe in evolution? I thought I read that you don't. But that also doesn't fit with your moderation for me if thats the case. In the sense its another unexpected case for me. Its interesting if you indeed reject being religious and only believe in the bible and think "jesus was only a man". And yet still reject evolution. Do you?

I do not believe in evolution. Even long before I studied the Bible, when I was taught Evolution in school, I knew it was bullshit. I am not religious in that I would never belong to any organized religion. I do believe the Bible as the word of God and Jesus was only a man but also a mighty god (Isaiah 9:6) just as Moses and the judges of Israel were "gods."

Daystar, I would be interested to know why you don't believe in evolution. Have you studied it? I'm assuming you don't reject it just because the bible seems to teach 'instant' creation- the sudden appearing of species? (I'm aware you studied creation with the JWs, and they certainly allow no room for evolution based on their interpretation).
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"

Albert Einstein
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#13
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 3:36 pm)CoxRox Wrote: Daystar, I would be interested to know why you don't believe in evolution. Have you studied it? I'm assuming you don't reject it just because the bible seems to teach 'instant' creation- the sudden appearing of species? (I'm aware you studied creation with the JWs, and they certainly allow no room for evolution based on their interpretation).

I was taught it in school and thought it was nonsense. I didn't study creation with the JWs. The only thing that evolves in evolution is evolution itself. There is no real evidence, only speculation and baseless assumptions. It is the purest form of bullshit I have ever seen, far more so even than religion.

Whenever anyone tries to convince you of something and assumes that you are stupid if you don't buy into it. Don't buy into it. Whenever anyone insists that there is evidence of something when there isn't, you can count on it not being there.

For example, I have asked for evidence of science disagreeing with the Bible here and on other Atheist and Bible Skeptic boards for years and have had a handful of baseless sermons straight from the ever evolving theoretical science and demands that I accept that.

I know bullshit when I see it. Propaganda of the masses. You want to explain it to me?

Edit: If you or anyone else does want to explain it to me here is some advice.

1. Just answer my questions in a simple and short manner and then if needed expand upon that.

I had a whole list of things but that will do.
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#14
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
I'd be glad to have a go at that actually, Daystar, but I think it would be better explained for you if your read the same book that I've already recommended to CoxRox (Evolution by Prothero). However if you have questions I'd be very glad to answer any of them.

You should also consider that over 99% of biologists working today actually do accept the neo-darwinian synthesis? I mean, it's odd to think you don't believe in evolution- all evolution is is the change of organisms throughout time. This change was actually well documented BEFORE Darwin by christian geologists/scientists, and the fossil record is constantly being improved. What you actually don't believe in is the method through which this change happens- natural selection is one such driving force, sexual selection is another, for example. But evolution is not a disputable fact- it happens all the time in bacteria which adapt to antibiotics. It happens when breeders select for a trait. That's all evolution is. The argument is usually about whether or not macroevolution happens, but all too often creationists just lump it all together. Which is wrong, and too bad, since it's fascinating to me.

But yeah, any questions you have, shoot, and I will try to make answers short and sweet.
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#15
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 4:01 pm)Daystar Wrote: There is no real evidence, only speculation and baseless assumptions.
Can you give me a few examples of the speculation and baseless assumptions? You ask for evidence of the Bible disagreeing with science, so I ask you for examples of the speculation and assumptions. I personally think you don't have an open mind, and refuse to believe anything that contradicts your holy book, and are therefore biased. I'm open minded to anything about religion, god, etc. I regularly go to Christian meetings to see if they can convince me, but none of their argument have so far fitted in my eyes, and the whole God idea is to me a "baseless assumption".

So yeah, I guess I'd like to know what precisely you reject about Evolution.
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#16
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 5:00 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
(December 3, 2008 at 4:01 pm)Daystar Wrote: There is no real evidence, only speculation and baseless assumptions.
Can you give me a few examples of the speculation and baseless assumptions? You ask for evidence of the Bible disagreeing with science, so I ask you for examples of the speculation and assumptions. I personally think you don't have an open mind, and refuse to believe anything that contradicts your holy book, and are therefore biased. I'm open minded to anything about religion, god, etc. I regularly go to Christian meetings to see if they can convince me, but none of their argument have so far fitted in my eyes, and the whole God idea is to me a "baseless assumption".

So yeah, I guess I'd like to know what precisely you reject about Evolution.

And after that, we can see what he thinks about theories such as gravity, germs, cells, atoms, plate tectonics, etc. Why pick on evolution when there are so many other unanimously accepted scientific theories out there? Tongue
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#17
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
Daystar said ''I was taught it in school and thought it was nonsense. I didn't study creation with the JWs. The only thing that evolves in evolution is evolution itself. There is no real evidence, only speculation and baseless assumptions. It is the purest form of bullshit I have ever seen, far more so even than religion.''

I am very surprised and disappointed at your reply Daystar. (Sorry if I was wrong about your study with the JWs. You use a lot of their terminology and support alot of their beliefs, or so it seems to me). You can't just say it's bullshit without supporting this in some way. Well you can, but then that's not going to get us very far. I've only just started to look into Evolution and already it's looking pretty convincing. WHY is it a load of bullshit??? Sad
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"

Albert Einstein
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#18
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 4:01 pm)Daystar Wrote:
(December 3, 2008 at 3:36 pm)CoxRox Wrote: Daystar, I would be interested to know why you don't believe in evolution. Have you studied it? I'm assuming you don't reject it just because the bible seems to teach 'instant' creation- the sudden appearing of species? (I'm aware you studied creation with the JWs, and they certainly allow no room for evolution based on their interpretation).

I was taught it in school and thought it was nonsense. I didn't study creation with the JWs. The only thing that evolves in evolution is evolution itself. There is no real evidence, only speculation and baseless assumptions. It is the purest form of bullshit I have ever seen, far more so even than religion.

Whenever anyone tries to convince you of something and assumes that you are stupid if you don't buy into it. Don't buy into it. Whenever anyone insists that there is evidence of something when there isn't, you can count on it not being there.

For example, I have asked for evidence of science disagreeing with the Bible here and on other Atheist and Bible Skeptic boards for years and have had a handful of baseless sermons straight from the ever evolving theoretical science and demands that I accept that.

I know bullshit when I see it. Propaganda of the masses. You want to explain it to me?

Edit: If you or anyone else does want to explain it to me here is some advice.

1. Just answer my questions in a simple and short manner and then if needed expand upon that.

I had a whole list of things but that will do.
Sorry but evolution is a scientific fact. And nothing could be bigger bullshit than the supernatural because it completely goes against every law in the universe and is more complex than the universe itself. Anything that looks so amazing that it had to be desiged would have to be a lot more simple and less fine-tuned than the designer itself. Its more likely that the universe jumped into existence right from the start than a designer far more complex than the universe (or the universes, or the multiverse) to be there right from the start!
Although I think everything came from something very simple indeed. With no mind, no intelligence and no consciousness. I believe everything developed naturally.
Also evolution is not 'just a theory'. Its a theory in the same way that the the theory of gravity is a theory. Its a scientific fact.
And also btw, in case you don't know, natural selection is not chance. Its the opposite of chance in fact. Its on going natural cumulation one step at a time over billions of years. Its not chance. Its natural. Yeah thats right. Natural selection is natural. Not random chance.
The alternative to design is not chance. Its natural selection.
Good point Coxrox. Is Daystar going to explain why evolution is a load of bullshit? I certainly explain why religion is a load of bullshit as far as I'm concerned. Not backed up by any evidence.
If Daystar says the same then that's clearly bullshit because evolution is backed up by TONS of scientific evidence. So is he going to just say all that evidence is bullshit or is he going to attempt to falsify the evidence supporting evolution?
What about DNA? What about fossils? What about DNA sequencing? All put there by Satan? Tongue
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#19
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 4:01 pm)Daystar Wrote: There is no real evidence, only speculation and baseless assumptions.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=...+evolution

Try again.
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#20
RE: If you dont believe in Christianity you will go to Hell
(December 3, 2008 at 6:27 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Sorry but evolution is a scientific fact. Also evolution is not 'just a theory'. Its a theory in the same way that the the theory of gravity is a theory. Its a scientific fact.
Errrmmmm....welllll...

Corrections:

Evolution (the genetic changes within a species due to mutation) is a fact, we've observed it happen (Lenski experiments, croatian island lizards etc).

The Theory of Evolution is a theory (hence the name). This is simply an explanation of Evolution (the fact, see above). It's how we reckon it all works, and the key of the theory is Natural Selection.

So your analogy about gravity is slightly wrong. Gravity (the scientific fact) is a fact, whilst the theory of gravity attempts to explain the fact.
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