Q: What is trans-galactic, eternal and omni-everything? A: God, necessarily?

[Whateverist]

So the size and scope of the Chrisitan (but also Muslim and Jewish) God is something I've often wondered about.  Why so big?  Is the bigness of God essential to the essence of these religions?  Are there any attributes which are negotiable?  I just wrote a post to new member Vixene about this and decided I wanted to know what others think.

Oh hell, lets make this a poll?  Everyone loves polls, right?  I'm going to leave it open to select all the options you like.  Do people really care if your choices are public?  I'm going to guess they really do and leave it private, much to my own disappointment.

The information I'd like to get involves the roles and attributes of God and the epistemic position of man in regards to knowing the specifics of God.  I'd like to know why too but I'll have to leave that for the comment section since this is already one complicated MF.

First, our actual epistemic position in relation to knowing God:

E1 - Human beings know God through the teachings of the church (bible, etc.) He established so that we might know what He wills.

E2 - Human beings have advanced enough to dismiss god belief entirely, where 'God' is defined by teachings of the church (bible, etc.).

E3 - Human beings are not equipped to comprehend God (nor to recognize what is His message).  

E4 - God is something that we can naturally intuit in the same way we intuit who we are and what we value.

Secondly, what are the essential roles of the Abrahamic God:

R5 - God is that which created everything else, the 'uncaused cause'.

R6 - God is the final moral authority, the judge of who and what is or is not worthy.

R7 - God decides who gets eternal reward and who gets eternal damnation.

R8 - God looks out for us in our daily lives, like the angel on the shoulder who encourages you toward that which will reward you most.

R9 - God gives us succor and comforts us when life becomes too much.

Thirdly, the what are the essential attributes of the Abrahamic God: 

A10 - God is eternal.

A11 - God is everywhere.

A12 - God is in everything, nothing is without God.

A13 - God is omni-powerful, can do anything (or at least any thing that is not logically impossible).  

A14 - God is omni-knowing, He knows not just your words and deeds but even your intentions.

A15 - God is omni-loving.  He really, really, really wants all to be happy and fulfilled.

A16 - God is inside us and communes with us in subtle ways.

A17 - God is a subject, not an object.  He has subjective states, values and intentions much like we do ourselves.

Psychological conceptions of God/gods:

P18 - God is a possible configuration of the mind.

P19 - God is an aspect of the subconscious.

Piss off:

F20 - Fuck you and your god damned polls.


Just because I hear he is hard of hearing:  Hey Chad, what do you think God is?

[Whateverist]

Hey can anyone tell me how to change my vote? I forgot to vote for #4.

[Aristocatt]

I tried to give the most fitting answer for each category.

I answered E2

Why:
As I understood the question and the answer, I feel as though we have enough present knowledge to seriously doubt the accounts of an active Abrahamic God. This is different from my general epistemic understanding of god in general. If you make a claim about a general god, I will likely fall back to the philosophy of science/logic to describe why I reject the hypothesis of god. You get to keep making your claims, I get to think about how your claims are any different from those of a pastafarian.

I answered R5

Why:
That seems to be an attribute of the Abrahamic god which everyone agrees on. For example, R9 also seems like a good representation of modern Christian thought, but I can also see the Westboro baptist Church saying something along the lines of "god does not comfort the trans community and that is why their suicide rates are so high".

I answered A13

Why: Of all of the theology I have been taught over my life, this is one of the most important ideas imparted. All the other ones seem to be reasonable from the Christian perspective, but Omnipotence pretty much gives theologians an answer for everything.


I answered P19

Why: Go Freud. . .kinda.

I answered F20

Why: Fuck you and your polls!

[LastPoet]

Hey can anyone tell me how to change my vote?  I forgot to vote for #4.

On the poll results, in the titlebar there should be an undo vote link.

[Longhorn]

I wanted to vote fuck you and your goddamned polls, but that's rude, so I brought you a baby armadillo instead

[Whateverist]

Thank you Poet for the help and Vic for the armadillo baby.

Since I made the results private I should say which I voted for: 4, 8 and 16-19.  I decided to take up Aristo's idea of choosing one in each category, except for the psychological options which I think are both true.

So epistemically, like Aristo, if God were understood as literally biblical I'd have chosen E2: that we now know enough to dismiss that option.  But since I think gods only make any sense at all when understood psychologically, I went with E4: that God would be something we intuit directly (the same way we intuit how our dead relative would have responded to something).

Initially I had declined to choose a role for God because they mostly strike me as silly except perhaps in some symbolic sense.  But then it occurred to me that R8 would fit well enough: that God is like a guardian angel.  It is a division of consciousness which is there whether or not we choose to call it God (and I don't) and it does seem to serve such a role by that interpretation as shown in this video.  So I chose that.
https://youtu.be/dFs9WO2B8uI

Originally I also hadn't chosen any attributes for God, but since Aristo had I thought I should look again.  Fortunately I realized that A17, that God is a subject not an object was sufficiently broad to fit.  So I chose that one too.  If you watched the video I would point out that neither that guy nor I thinks the subconscious is a 'subject' in exactly the same way that we are, but it is clearly consciousness.

I chose both P18 and P19 because I think it makes sense to think of God as a division of consciousness (P19) that operates mostly subconsciously, and, that is really a possible but not necessary configuration of the conscious mind (P18).  I do think it is advantageous to recognize that there is other consciousness operating along side your own and to be open to its contributions.  

It also behooves us to remember who works for who, evolutionarily.  The conscious mind is the new kid on the block and the creation of our consciousness as a whole.  So we as conscious minds wasting time online here (should) work for the good of the total consciousness, and the unconscious is fully capable of calling us to task or rewarding us depending on the quality of the relationship we maintain.  True humility does get rewarded, not the kind exhibited by most fundies.  But that isn't to say the conscious mind doesn't have really important work to do.  I think the relationship is like that of a CEO.  We run the place but if we run it into the ground we can be dealt with.

I probably should have voted for F20 too but that just struck me as being too much like

[Whateverist]

Oh, and I could almost vote for E2 also, that humans have evolved enough to dismiss god belief when the God is defined by the bible or church. What stops me from also checking that one is that Christians do not all approach either the bible or other doctrine in a literal way. Out of respect for the microscopic number that approach religion allegorically I won't choose that one. But I'm certainly sympathetic with doing so based on the great masses of believers who only know literal.

[Jenny A]

Other than people ought to know better than to believe in god now; and the abrahamic god is supposed to be eternal (also fuck another poll especially one this complex) I didn't vote.

The thing is that jews, christians and muslims see that god differently enough to make answering the questions as if it were one construct is exceedingly difficult.

[vixene]

This is interesting, one can only imagine how long it took you to write up such a detailed and introspective post. Also thanks for the mention

I voted E2, R5 and P18, couldn't vote in the A category as I didn't agree with either of them.

E2 because we have advanced enough to think logically and not follow through traditional beliefs like sheep, which is a good thing.

R5 because in the condition that god exists, I believe he'd be the uncreated creator in that scenario and...

P18 because I believe God is essentially a construct of the mind, a being created to make sense of the world and to give strength and a will to survive in mentally weak people who need something to hang on to in times of distress.

Not sure if I could vote for F20 so kinda left that blank lol.

[Salacious B. Crumb]

GZ21 - God is a man-made construct to try to explain how everything in our reality exists. We have no evidence for most of the things that are claimed about this deity, and have no evidence for this deity, which leads to more of a man-made god every day, because everyone loves to make up characteristics about their god, it makes their god more personal that way, and justifies the believers immoral actions in a more moral manner. Like my run-on sentence? I’m good at those. Fuck you and polls. lol JK It is an in-depth poll. Nice job.