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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 7:38 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 1:36 pm)pgrimes15 Wrote: It would be interesting to know if there are people who became Christians as a result of the arguments of apologetics.
Grimesy
I know that common apologetics arguments are a big reason I left Christianity, namely the freewill crap
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 10:17 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 1:36 pm)pgrimes15 Wrote: It would be interesting to know if there are people who became Christians as a result of the arguments of apologetics.
Grimesy
I gather in Mormonism, apologetics has been utilized to pacify the pew warmers. Not sure how much apologetic emphasis is placed on the training of the door to door bretheren shits.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 10:33 pm
I've often said that anything that requires apologetics is fundamentally flawed.
Dying to live, living to die.
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 11:10 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 12:35 am)Shuffle Wrote: I have a question for the theists out there. Who are your favorite apologists? I just wanted to know who you guys were getting your ideas from.
Some of you guys seem too smart for the average apologist, so I was wondering if you had some super genius creationists behind your belts. Don't get me wrong, not all of you seem too smart, so don't get too cocky.
Thanks!
I like listening to James McDonald/walk in the word ministries. If you Goto one place.com you can find his radio ministry archived there.
Not really an apologist, just a really good preacher. When I was in my darkest hours it seem like God was talking through His radio ministry directly too me. If I had a problem I could not get around James would have a lesson on it for me that day. It was absolutely unbelievable how many different times that happened. I don't listen as much anymore, but from time to time it still happens.
Aside from that I have no other formal teachers or training besides the direction Given by the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 11:12 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 10:33 pm).Beccs Wrote: I've often said that anything that requires apologetics is fundamentally flawed.
So basicly everything we don't intuitively know? Because their is an arguement/structured belief behind everything we are ever taught. Sport-tress.
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 11:17 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 11:12 pm)Drich Wrote: (August 10, 2015 at 10:33 pm).Beccs Wrote: I've often said that anything that requires apologetics is fundamentally flawed.
So basicly everything we don't intuitively know? Because their is an arguement/structured belief behind everything we are ever taught. Sport-tress.
No, science, for instance gets corrected. If it is proved to be wrong, it is modified, corrected and, if necessary, discarded and replaced. A whole new branch of science isn't created to try to explain that it IS true and that everyone should believe it, trying to reinterpret the results to prove it.
Dying to live, living to die.
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 11:20 pm
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2015 at 11:21 pm by Ravenshire.)
(August 10, 2015 at 4:07 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm really sick of apologists. They are ignorant and/or dishonest. Their arguments are always flawed. Sadly, the intended audience either can't or won't see the flaws. I made a thread challenging anyone to bring me any apologetics and I'll point out the flaws. I got only one challenger, I may have to dig the thread up again.
Their success is pretty much related to how well they hide these flaws under layers of clever sounding irrelevant bullshit. Actually, some of them don't even do that and are still doing well, I'm at a loss to explain why.
Even the worst apologist will garner a following because there are so many who are so desperate to believe in something that they'll believe in anything.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 11:26 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 11:17 pm)Beccs Wrote: (August 10, 2015 at 11:12 pm)Drich Wrote: So basicly everything we don't intuitively know? Because their is an arguement/structured belief behind everything we are ever taught. Sport-tress.
No, science, for instance gets corrected. If it is proved to be wrong, it is modified, corrected and, if necessary, discarded and replaced. A whole new branch of science isn't created to try to explain that it IS true and that everyone should believe it, trying to reinterpret the results to prove it.
That's not true, is it? Because up until some "fact" gets replaced with something more.. 'Factier' 'science' more over the scientist makes all sorts of efforts to maintain his pet hypothesis' validity.
Don't look no way but that is a form of appologetics
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RE: Apologists
August 10, 2015 at 11:46 pm
Drich you fail to understand this too? Nothing in science is 100% certain because unlike your a/s/k crap it has to be falsifiable. That means that short of human omniscience there will always be a conceivable situation that could falsify anything in science. In fact that right there is a prerequisite for any coherent assertion, because if something is unfalsifiable you have no method of determining its veracity.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Apologists
August 11, 2015 at 2:33 am
Personally I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone has converted into a religion just by apologetics. I firmly believe that apologetics is the rationalization people use either to make themselves feel better, or to try and hide the real reasons that they don't feel they can logically defend.
I've heard people claim to have converted just based on this stuff, but I still don't believe them. It's a common ploy to say, "I used to be an atheist, and then..." Because apologetics is inherently dishonest, it's far more likely to be one more lie.
I've listened to many Steve Shives series where he critiques popular books, and my god... the things these people write make me cringe. They generally put on a show of appealing to sceptics, but then quickly descend into completely irrational bullshit than no one except a believer is going to take seriously.
If these arguments do somehow tip you over, I think you must have been pretty much there already. They are so easily destroyed by anyone without presupposition and a basic grounding in logic.
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