2015 NFL thread

[SteelCurtain]

The New Englanders have clearly fully assimilated you into the hive mind, Tibs.

"Twommy is da bess qwatuhback evah played da game, bah nun!"

He is definitely top 5. For sure. On some days I'd put him top 3 all time. But one thing is indisputable, Peyton is better at reading defenses. He invented the art. Tom Brady is better than Peyton in a lot of ways, especially now, especially in big games. But nobody is more cerebral in dismantling defenses than Peyton.

[SteelCurtain]

And yes. I hate the Cheatriots.

[KevinM1]

Steel, jealousy is a terrible, terrible thing.

And do I really need to go into how spygate was just as idiotic as deflategate? Because both weren't what people think they are.

[Tiberius]

The New Englanders have clearly fully assimilated you into the hive mind, Tibs.

"Twommy is da bess qwatuhback evah played da game, bah nun!"

He is definitely top 5. For sure. On some days I'd put him top 3 all time. But one thing is indisputable, Peyton is better at reading defenses. He invented the art. Tom Brady is better than Peyton in a lot of ways, especially now, especially in big games. But nobody is more cerebral in dismantling defenses than Peyton.

Hey, I was a fan of Brady well before I moved out here, and the guy has more than earned his place at or near the top. He was ranked the 2nd best QB in 2014 by NFL players (behind Aaron Rodgers, who seems to have imploded in recent games), so you can put him in your personal top 5 or top 3 if you like, but it just doesn't do him justice.

Considering the guy has 4 Super Bowl wins out of 6 appearances (Peyton has 1 win out of 3 appearances), and the fact that 3 of those wins happened within his first 4 years as a starting QB. Then there's his perfect season, something no other QB has ever done since the 16 game season was implemented. Oh yeah, and not only did he manage to win last year's Super Bowl, but this season is so far one of the best, if not the best he's ever had. All that, and you still rank him in the "top five"?

Manning on the other hand, historically performs terribly in the post season. You can't fairly judge "best of all time" quarterbacks if you ignore the post season, because what the NFL season is ultimately all about is the Super Bowl. You could get a QB with ideal stats, wins in seasonal games, record yardage, etc. but if they fail to perform in the post season, people will always see something "missing". The best quarterbacks perform well in both seasonal games and the post season, something which Brady does.

If you want to compare Manning vs Brady stats, then by all means, but they don't show a pretty picture either. As of 6th November 2015, Manning has 537 touchdowns and 245 interceptions, which means for every touchdown he threw, he threw 0.456 interceptions. Brady has 412 touchdowns and 144 interceptions, meaning for every touchdown he threw, he threw 0.349 interceptions. That's a pretty big difference, and if Manning was as good as reading defenses as much as you say he is, why so many interceptions? Unless you can think of a better statistic which demonstrates Manning's superiority in defense reads? Brady also has a better win/loss record (.773 vs .699 for Manning) which again, you'd expect from a QB who can read defenses better.

Manning is a great player, don't get me wrong, and he may have invented the art of reading defenses, but Brady took it to another level.

[SteelCurtain]

Not jealous. My team still has more rings. Two more than yours, in fact.

I don't like cheaters. I am an avid football fan. I live, eat, sleep, breathe football. Played it for 16 years.

I understand what happened in both scandals. I know that deflating a football by a couple of psi will not change the outcome of the game.

I do know that stealing defensive signals absolutely can change the outcome of games. And after all the reports that have come out, it is beyond doubt that they did just that.

I will always hate the team that repeatedly tries to eschew or exploit the rules in order to win.

[Tiberius]

I do know that stealing defensive signals absolutely can change the outcome of games. And after all the reports that have come out, it is beyond doubt that they did just that.

"Stealing" is a pretty big and inaccurate word for what actually happened. I wasn't a Patriots (or a football) fan when the incident went down, so what I know I got from Wikipedia mostly. The scandal seemed to surround the Patriots filming the Jet's defensive signals from the sideline during the game. Whilst against the rules, I don't see how it's stealing when the Jets were doing their signals during a game, in full view of everyone, including the Patriots. If the Patriots had instead hired a savant who could memorize all the signals, would that have been stealing?

One of the first sentences of the Wikipedia article on the issue reads "videotaping opposing coaches is not illegal in the NFL per se", so again, it's not stealing because the action wasn't against the rules, just the location of the action. It seems that if the Patriots had filmed the defensive signals from a legal location, there would be no rule violate and no scandal.

Honestly, if you watch the opposing coach signal in a specific way, and the defense on the next play is Cover 1, and then you see them signal in the exact same way on a later play, why should it be wrong to tell your offense that Cover 1 is likely being used? Besides, when watching the game on the TV, you see coaches all the time. If a coach records the game at home and watches it, and figures out some defensive signals from that recording, is that also wrong?

The scandal really confuses me, because as much as I agree that the Patriots shouldn't have broken any rules, most people who seem to talk about Spygate seem to think that it's about filming the signals rather than where the signals were filmed from. If filming the signals was against the rules, then the networks which broadcast the games are likely helping multiple coaches "cheat" every week.

[Mudhammam]

What is Brady's/Belichick's record following accusations of cheating? The season after Spygate, they went 18-1. This year, after Deflategate, they're 8-0. When they're scrutinized, they prove themselves even better than before. I have to say, those records sort of put the cheating accusations to bed in my mind.

[KevinM1]

Fact: in 2007, it wasn't illegal to steal signals.
Fact: in 2007 it wasn't illegal to record other team's signals.
Fact: a memo cannot present nor implement leage rule changes. Rule changes must be ratified by the owners.
Fact: in 2007, the field was considered to be the part contained between the solid white lines, meaning a team's sideline area wasn't considered the field.
Fact: there was nothing in the actual NFL rules in 2007 prohibitng the use of recorded signals from being used in game preparation.

Basically, Spygate boils down to the league sending out a poorly written memo that constituted rule changes/restrictions. The league cannot simply arbitrarily make rule changes. They must be voted on by ownership. So, Belichick ignored the memo and stuck with the actual bylaws.

The cameraman filmed from the sidelines . The restrictions at the time were coaching booths, the field itself, and locker rooms.

The bylaws said nothing about opposing teams' signals at all. Just that any recording could not be used for the game currently in play.

There's no proof that the Patriots were using what was being recorded in the games themselves. The report that the Patriots recorded the Rams' Super Bowl practice was retracted by the Boston Herald because it was false.

So, it's just one example of many of Goodell acting with impunity rather than by the rules afforded to him by the CBA. As a Patriots fan, I'm pissed that Kraft didn't fight either false controversy. I get why he didn't - he has stated many times that he'd rather the organization take a quick hit so it can move on and let the players and staff play the game without distraction - but it makes the team look guilty when they're not really guilty of anything.

Regarding Deflategate, "more likely than not" is a piss poor standard of proof to be working from, the league has no right to demand that players turn over their private property, and there's already a punishment on the books for ball tampering - $25,000 fine. Should have been a non-issue, and instead Goodell goes nuclear.

The Patriots aren't the villains everyone else thinks they are. They've essentially been punished for being wildly successful in an era of imposed mediocrity, mostly because, yes, Belichick is that smart and understands how to exploit every advantage he has. Look at all the legit rule changes made since 2000 due to the Patriots playing right up to the edge of the law. Everything from the way injury timeouts work to how defenders can jam receivers to how eligible/ineligible receivers work (lol at whiny Harbaugh). It also helps that Brady constantly restructures his contract to give the team as much cap room as possible to work with. Greatest of all time and he makes less than stiffs like "West Coast Bledsoe" Rivers and "Pass Interference is a Legitimate Tactic" Flacco.

The Patriots have also been used as a distraction from the real issues affecting the league (why talk domestic abuse, child abuse, drug abuse, horrific injury, and long term brain injury when BRADY MAY HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITH IMPERCEPTIBLY DEFLATED BALLS?!!?!?!!).

So, yeah... people who harp on the Patriots cheating really don't know what they're talking about. All it does is give those opposing teams and their fans a built in excuse to explain why they've sucked so long against them.

[TheRealJoeFish]

People people people let's just all unite in our hatred of the Cowboys!

[Tiberius]

I dunno Kevin, I think the Patriots definitely did wrong in Spygate; Bellichick wouldn't have accepted the penalty and apologized if it was on the NFL. Besides, the rule was in place before Spygate, and the memo was sent out to remind teams about the rule, since apparently a lot of teams were still recording from the sidelines. I believe two memos were sent out in total. If the Patriots were still doing it after that, then they should have known better.

If anything, Bellichick should have asked for clarification of the rule rather than just go ahead and do what he interpreted it to mean.

We can eat some humble pie and admit that the Patriots cheated, but at the same time, in the grand scale of things, it's not a huge violation of the game. I think most of it was overblown by the media, as they tried to do with Deflategate (which I agree with you, was much ado about nothing in the end).

People people people let's just all unite in our hatred of the Cowboys!

I actually quite like the Cowboys.