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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm
(This post was last modified: August 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm by Tartarus Sauce.)
FYI, assuming you can't be wrong is a terrible mindset for anything, even if you can't think of how you could be. That's the type of thinking that so often leads to people committing terrible acts, acts they've rationalized through their certainty. It's a stepping stone into intellectual dishonesty at best and sociopathic territory at worst, why bother with self-reflection if you know you're right?
freedomfromfallacy » I'm weighing my tears to see if the happy ones weigh the same as the sad ones.
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 2:26 pm
(August 27, 2015 at 2:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 2:10 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: 
Sowwy. 
Don't hate me!! Lol.
I'll think about it.
*Smacks CL's ass and demands a sandwich and a beer*
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 2:28 pm
(August 27, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 2:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Sowwy.
Don't hate me!! Lol.
I'll think about it.
*Smacks CL's ass and demands a sandwich and a beer*
Deal! 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 2:30 pm
(August 27, 2015 at 2:28 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: I'll think about it.
*Smacks CL's ass and demands a sandwich and a beer*
Deal!
If only it worked that well IRL. My wife would probably deliver the beer along the side of my head.
Crazy Korean . . .
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 2:35 pm
(August 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm)Tartarus Sauce Wrote: FYI, assuming you can't be wrong is a terrible mindset for anything, even if you can't think of how you could be. That's the type of thinking that so often leads to people committing terrible acts, acts they've rationalized through their certainty. It's a stepping stone into intellectual dishonesty at best and sociopathic territory at worst, why bother with self-reflection if you know you're right?
That's fair. But it's not that I don't think I can be wrong in general, lol, I've been wrong about many things, and I'm sure I'll continue to make mistakes.
It's just that I don't think I'm wrong about my Christian beliefs, and so as it stands, it wouldn't make much sense to proclaim my 100% confidence in my belief and then say... but I might be wrong. Lol, obviously I don't think I'm wrong.
Though of course, when my kids are old enough they will come to a point where they will have to do their own soul searching and see if they really believe what their parents believe, and why. And I should stand by and continue to accept them and respect their right to believe as they will, whether that be the same or completely different from me.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 3:06 pm
(August 26, 2015 at 6:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:I'll be there is even a good muslim or two out there if you go by that standard!
Well, I've met a few Muslims, and none of them tried to blow me up. I can't say the same about Catholics.
Boru
We're not talking about behind the altar, Bri.
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 3:11 pm
(August 27, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm)Tartarus Sauce Wrote: FYI, assuming you can't be wrong is a terrible mindset for anything, even if you can't think of how you could be. That's the type of thinking that so often leads to people committing terrible acts, acts they've rationalized through their certainty. It's a stepping stone into intellectual dishonesty at best and sociopathic territory at worst, why bother with self-reflection if you know you're right?
That's fair. But it's not that I don't think I can be wrong in general, lol, I've been wrong about many things, and I'm sure I'll continue to make mistakes.
It's just that I don't think I'm wrong about my Christian beliefs, and so as it stands, it wouldn't make much sense to proclaim my 100% confidence in my belief and then say... but I might be wrong. Lol, obviously I don't think I'm wrong.
Though of course, when my kids are old enough they will come to a point where they will have to do their own soul searching and see if they really believe what their parents believe, and why. And I should stand by and continue to accept them and respect their right to believe as they will, whether that be the same or completely different from me. Obviously you're not going to think you are wrong, that's not what I'm advocating for. Your previous post came across as you declaring you didn't think it was even possible you could be wrong, which is a very dangerous way of thinking. Humans are fallible and imperfect beings, for one to declare infallibility on any matter is an incredibly dangerous mode of thinking. One can be fully convinced and confident in their own standpoints without being epistemologically certain, which is impossible.
freedomfromfallacy » I'm weighing my tears to see if the happy ones weigh the same as the sad ones.
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 3:30 pm
(August 27, 2015 at 3:11 pm)Tartarus Sauce Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 2:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's fair. But it's not that I don't think I can be wrong in general, lol, I've been wrong about many things, and I'm sure I'll continue to make mistakes.
It's just that I don't think I'm wrong about my Christian beliefs, and so as it stands, it wouldn't make much sense to proclaim my 100% confidence in my belief and then say... but I might be wrong. Lol, obviously I don't think I'm wrong.
Though of course, when my kids are old enough they will come to a point where they will have to do their own soul searching and see if they really believe what their parents believe, and why. And I should stand by and continue to accept them and respect their right to believe as they will, whether that be the same or completely different from me. Obviously you're not going to think you are wrong, that's not what I'm advocating for. Your previous post came across as you declaring you didn't think it was even possible you could be wrong, which is a very dangerous way of thinking. Humans are fallible and imperfect beings, for one to declare infallibility on any matter is an incredibly dangerous mode of thinking. One can be fully convinced and confident in their own standpoints without being epistemologically certain, which is impossible.
Ah, gotcha. Without getting into too much detail, I've experienced personal things that make me strongly believe in my faith. Let me ask you this, how confident are you that you are a man? Is it possible that you could be wrong about that?
If you take it far enough, yes, I guess anything is possible. But for it to be likely enough that you'd tell someone "I believe I'm a man, but I could be wrong" is taking it a bit too far beyond reason. Likewise, I believe I would be taking it beyond reason if I told my children God is real (or whatever) and then said "but I could be wrong." Because of my level of confidence that He is, it wouldn't make much sense to say I could be wrong, even though "anything" is possible, technically.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 6:37 pm
(This post was last modified: August 27, 2015 at 6:38 pm by Tartarus Sauce.)
(August 27, 2015 at 3:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 3:11 pm)Tartarus Sauce Wrote: Obviously you're not going to think you are wrong, that's not what I'm advocating for. Your previous post came across as you declaring you didn't think it was even possible you could be wrong, which is a very dangerous way of thinking. Humans are fallible and imperfect beings, for one to declare infallibility on any matter is an incredibly dangerous mode of thinking. One can be fully convinced and confident in their own standpoints without being epistemologically certain, which is impossible.
Ah, gotcha. Without getting into too much detail, I've experienced personal things that make me strongly believe in my faith. Let me ask you this, how confident are you that you are a man? Is it possible that you could be wrong about that?
If you take it far enough, yes, I guess anything is possible. But for it to be likely enough that you'd tell someone "I believe I'm a man, but I could be wrong" is taking it a bit too far beyond reason. Likewise, I believe I would be taking it beyond reason if I told my children God is real (or whatever) and then said "but I could be wrong." Because of my level of confidence that He is, it wouldn't make much sense to say I could be wrong, even though "anything" is possible, technically. No I wouldn't take it that far either, this is over semantics at this point. You don't have to necessarily tell your children "you might be wrong," since once they reach the age where they no longer view you as the all-knowing guru of everything, they'll understand that it's your beliefs they've been taught, and that while you may be convinced of their veracity, they don't necessarily have to be. You already stated it was your wish they eventually do their own soul searching.
Which is why before they reach that age and are still highly impressionable, it's important you DON'T say phrases like "there's no possible way I'm wrong" about your beliefs. That's not going to induce them to soul-search later, it adds an extra stamp of authority on things they'll already be inclined to take your word for. I'd recommend just teaching them about your beliefs without any declarations on certainty, I don't think it'll be a problem since kids tend not to question the authenticity of stories and ideas presented to them until they are a bit older. If and when they do start questioning your authority though, you'd have to consider how you'd answer.
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RE: Christians/good people
August 27, 2015 at 6:56 pm
(August 27, 2015 at 6:37 pm)Tartarus Sauce Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 3:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ah, gotcha. Without getting into too much detail, I've experienced personal things that make me strongly believe in my faith. Let me ask you this, how confident are you that you are a man? Is it possible that you could be wrong about that?
If you take it far enough, yes, I guess anything is possible. But for it to be likely enough that you'd tell someone "I believe I'm a man, but I could be wrong" is taking it a bit too far beyond reason. Likewise, I believe I would be taking it beyond reason if I told my children God is real (or whatever) and then said "but I could be wrong." Because of my level of confidence that He is, it wouldn't make much sense to say I could be wrong, even though "anything" is possible, technically. No I wouldn't take it that far either, this is over semantics at this point. You don't have to necessarily tell your children "you might be wrong," since once they reach the age where they no longer view you as the all-knowing guru of everything, they'll understand that it's your beliefs they've been taught, and that while you may be convinced of their veracity, they don't necessarily have to be. You already stated it was your wish they eventually do their own soul searching.
Which is why before they reach that age and are still highly impressionable, it's important you DON'T say phrases like "there's no possible way I'm wrong" about your beliefs. That's not going to induce them to soul-search later, it adds an extra stamp of authority on things they'll already be inclined to take your word for. I'd recommend just teaching them about your beliefs without any declarations on certainty, I don't think it'll be a problem since kids tend not to question the authenticity of stories and ideas presented to them until they are a bit older. If and when they do start questioning your authority though, you'd have to consider how you'd answer.
Yeah, I agree with all this. 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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