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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 12:11 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 4:24 am)Alex K Wrote: (September 8, 2015 at 11:41 pm)Aroura Wrote: That's a good tip. So the r in ihr is non-rotic for native German, and with the way you are describing the I sound, then the word is pronounced almost like "ee-ah"? I can hear that when I hear it spoken. And Er is almost like "eh-ah". Is that getting kind of close?
My daughter also does struggle with the ch sounding like a k. Some things to work on.
By the way, do you want me to correct mistakes in your emails, or is that too much buzzkilling?
You can correct the mistakes. How else would we learn?
We are really very much beginners, so I expect we will make a lot of simple mistakes.
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 12:17 pm
TIL I'm apparently speaking with a southern accent in German bc I say the 'ch' softly...but the teacher has a northern one
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 12:38 pm
I've often wondered what exactly the difference is with the south German accent and hoch Deutsch. How would other Germans describe it?
I have occassionally heard some Bavarians talk with a really nasally sound, it's odd and is very difficult to describe. It's like they are always talking from the back of their throat. I was wondering if they are from Nieder Bayern.
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 12:49 pm
(This post was last modified: September 10, 2015 at 1:27 pm by Alex K.)
(September 10, 2015 at 12:38 pm)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: I've often wondered what exactly the difference is with the south German accent and hoch Deutsch. How would other Germans describe it?
I have occassionally heard some Bavarians talk with a really nasally sound, it's odd and is very difficult to describe. It's like they are always talking from the back of their throat. I was wondering if they are from Nieder Bayern.
Uuhh ohh. That's a tough one. When I don't speak high German on purpose, I have a southern German dialect/accent, so I should know. But the differences are too numerous and subtle for me to be able to summarize them. Generally, southern German has missed some vowel shifts and similar developments that high German has undergone (and therefore, oddly, sometimes has some similarities with English: for example, we also say "a" instead of high German "ein").
Some features (strongly simplified): endings tend to be shortened or omitted (machen -> mache, Sachen->Sache), "ü" -> "i", "ö"->"e", in some cases "ei" -> "ä" or "a", "t"->"d", "p"->"b", and similar substitutions. The regional dialects usually feature a less elaborate grammar where e.g. some forms of past tense are never used, and Genetiv is always avoided in favour of a less sophisticated sounding Dativ construction with a possessive pronoun ("Die Tochter des Mannes" -> "Dem Mann sei Dochder).
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 1:33 pm
(This post was last modified: September 10, 2015 at 1:46 pm by Alex K.)
An arbitrary example:
"Der Bube überholt die Schildkröte"
in my own southwestern dialect would be pronounced (writing German phonetically)
"De Bu iwwerhold die Schildgred"
...roughly. Or,
"Das Auto ist grün" -> "'s Audo isch gri"
"Dies ist mein Eimer" -> "Des isch mei/moi Ämer"
Someone from the North would probably say "Det is meen Eemer" or something like that (notice "Det is" ~ "That is"). A Bavarian might say "Dös is mei Aamer" or so. Abaris can insert his own, but it will probably be along the lines of "Dös üs mään Äämer"
Differences are still large between Southern Dialects. Double vowels denote the same vowel, elongated. There is a lot of that.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 2:19 pm
Here. It has subtitles and everything.
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 2:50 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Alex K Wrote: An arbitrary example:
"Der Bube überholt die Schildkröte"
in my own southwestern dialect would be pronounced (writing German phonetically)
"De Bu iwwerhold die Schildgred"
...roughly. Or,
"Das Auto ist grün" -> "'s Audo isch gri"
"Dies ist mein Eimer" -> "Des isch mei/moi Ämer"
Someone from the North would probably say "Det is meen Eemer" or something like that (notice "Det is" ~ "That is"). A Bavarian might say "Dös is mei Aamer" or so. Abaris can insert his own, but it will probably be along the lines of "Dös üs mään Äämer"
Differences are still large between Southern Dialects. Double vowels denote the same vowel, elongated. There is a lot of that.
No wonder I could never understand my relatives from lower Bavaria (Landshut area).
And to think that I was applying for a job in Switzerland last year and I've only ever met one German that can understand them!
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 3:21 pm
(September 10, 2015 at 2:50 pm)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: (September 10, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Alex K Wrote: An arbitrary example:
"Der Bube überholt die Schildkröte"
in my own southwestern dialect would be pronounced (writing German phonetically)
"De Bu iwwerhold die Schildgred"
...roughly. Or,
"Das Auto ist grün" -> "'s Audo isch gri"
"Dies ist mein Eimer" -> "Des isch mei/moi Ämer"
Someone from the North would probably say "Det is meen Eemer" or something like that (notice "Det is" ~ "That is"). A Bavarian might say "Dös is mei Aamer" or so. Abaris can insert his own, but it will probably be along the lines of "Dös üs mään Äämer"
Differences are still large between Southern Dialects. Double vowels denote the same vowel, elongated. There is a lot of that.
No wonder I could never understand my relatives from lower Bavaria (Landshut area).
And to think that I was applying for a job in Switzerland last year and I've only ever met one German that can understand them!
A lot of Germans speak English these days, so now they are able to communicate with each other.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 3:35 pm
So about the CH sounds then, in the program we are learning it from (and how my gran taught me to say it as well) is with not quite hard, with the back of the tongue not quite touching the roof of the mouth, so some air gets through. I don't know how you would spell it, there is no equivalent sound in an English word that I can think of. But it's betweena hard K and a soft CH. It kind of sounds like you are going to spit, to me, lol.
Is this the "High German" or northern German accent?
My daughter struggles with this sound, and tends to say it closer to "ish", which sound like it is still acceptable, but is southern, or low German?
The other difficult sound for her is the umlaut U, as in "Büch". She also tends to want to say it as the English "oo", as in Book. Combined with the CH, this is a tricky word to say and not sound American.
Any tips on those tricky vowel sounds?
Wow, I didn't realize what I as getting into! lol. I really appreciate all this help though.
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RE: Learning German, advice or help appreciated!
September 10, 2015 at 3:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 10, 2015 at 4:03 pm by Alex K.)
Low German ~ Northern German, Frisian, Dutch, Anglosaxon...
It's confusing because Low is North.
High German (in the sense of Standard German) is today typically associated with the Hannover region, although they are actually in the low German language area if I'm not mistaken
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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