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A person who needs help.....
#21
RE: A person who needs help.....
(18th September 2015, 11:52)Orchids Wrote: That's funny how as I was about to post to the rocket surgeon a thorough reply, it was mysteriously wiped out as I hit the preview botton!!!!
I would simply say 2 things now:
1/-according to the definition of the world seizure below, that is not what I had.

2.
a sudden attack of illness, especially a stroke or an epileptic fit.
"the patient had a seizure"
synonyms:
convulsion, fit, spasm, paroxysm; More

I never had any such things as "spasms", "fit", much less "convulsions".
So NO!! that is not it.

2/- you cannot include the words "vision" and "not genuine" in the same sentence.  If it's a vision it is Genuine. Just because you are not the one who had it does not mean that it never took place.
Thanks for the Addendum, it merits further investigating.

(18th September 2015, 11:45)drfuzzy Wrote: Ok, Orchid, you vehemently think that you don't need an exorcist.  It's true, I don't believe in demons or possessions or exorcisms, so I shouldn't have made the suggestion.  But your tale of wanting to be rid of an entity made me think of exorcism.

And my question is valid: why post these tales on an atheist forum?  Exactly how do you imagine atheists will be able to help you rid yourself of visions, or a haunting, or whatever you call these things you describe?  We can only assume that you are creating them yourself.  This is not a psychiatric forum.  

Considering the story, I wouldn't have been surprised by green slime.  And you do growl at anyone who finds stories of spirits and entities vaguely entertaining.  Thanks for giving me a chuckle on my work break.  Go get therapy.

What did you exactly intend on doing by calling yourself drfuzzy, knowing that you clearly are not a doctor, when you decided to reply to my OP? You cannot help. Move out of the way and allow space for somebody who really can. This is not the first time I go to an atheist site.  And in case you, claiming to be an atheist, do not know this, let me let you in on the fact that there are some Astoundingly Brilliant Atheists out there. I am going to stick around and try to see if I don't come across one or two on here. Til then, you simply need to move on with you life and avoid making me its centerfold.

(18th September 2015, 02:57)robvalue Wrote: Orchids: you're most welcome Smile

I can't say for sure what you experienced, however I would be willing to be that it was almost certainly not real. Minds can do very strange things at the best of times, and when under extreme stress they can produce all kinds of weird reactions. I've had hallucinations before, visual and auditory. I simply recognise that the chances of them being a glitch in my brain, which happens to everyone, are drastically higher than it being anything real. Minds also have access to our knowledge, so they are aware of the Jesus mythology you've no doubt been soaked in all your life. If instead you'd been raised in an Islamic country, it would probably have been Mohammad or something.

I'm not being insulting here but genuinely trying to help: when you "who else could it have been" you're committing an error of thinking. A logical fallacy known as the argument from ignorance, I cover it on my webpage. Your mind has come to a conclusion about what it is, and you ask us to demonstrate what else it is. It's impossible for us to know or prove anything about it, but our inability to do so in no way means the explanation your mind has come up with is correct. It's almost certainly the case that it was a mental glitch, but it so happens we can't prove that. But it would be true, nonetheless. Learning to spot errors like this in your thinking may help you push out irrational thoughts Smile I did a video about this, aimed more at people who say "You can't prove God doesn't exist" but it applies here too. Please ask if this is unclear.

http://youtu.be/U0C1bC9iDss

If you have the time, I'd seriously recommend this video. This is a guy who is an expert on the bible, and through a lot of study he makes strong arguments for Jesus (the human) not actually being real at all. He thinks the whole thing is a rewrite of an earlier story. I am inclined to agree. This video also shows how mythology is just copied from earlier mythology. It might make it seem a bit less real.

http://youtu.be/79Lmmy2jfeo

What makes you think I was under stress, let alone EXtreme, when that happened? Also as far as real vs. not real one can claim the same of many things in life as there is really no way of truly framing them.
I will get back to full answer your post. I have to run for now as my laptop battery is running out of power. Thank you for the effort. Really appreciate it.
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#22
RE: A person who needs help.....
(17th September 2015, 11:19)Orchids Wrote: I've briefly mingled with atheism few years back but ended up going  back to xitianity.  I realize it was a mistake as back then I did really good, read few books and was well on my way to mental freedom. I can't afford therapy. Yes, that's how tormented I currently am. I thought I'd ask one of the atheists forum for encouragement and guidance.

I have no problem embracing atheism, except that I saw somebody I think is Christ and more  than once few years back. I don't have any visions or hallucinations. He is the only one I have ever seen while awake. I never heard or seen things that were not there before this creep came along.

I just wish to move on with my life. If there is a god, he can go [blank] himself. I am just exhausted of all this garbage.

Please help me in any way you can.

Sincerely,

Hello Orchids, welcome to the forums!  I wanted to first say I'm sorry for the turmoil you are going through.  Second, seeing as so few (if any) here have experienced anything similar to what you are, it is difficult for us to give helpful advice as this type of thing is very foreign to a lot of us.  I noticed in one of your posts you mentioned you were Muslim at one time.  Maybe it would be helpful to know that this type of story is not that uncommon to Muslim and Hindu nations.  There are scores of stories similar to yours who come from similar backgrounds.  I don't have any resources for you to contact others who have experienced similar things, but check out some of these:

http://www.wnd.com/2014/11/rising-number...out-jesus/
http://www.divinerevelations.info/muslim/
http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/evange...-see-jesus
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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#23
RE: A person who needs help.....
Orchid: no problem Smile The way I read your post it sounded like you were under stress, apologies if I misinterpreted it.

Yes, I never claim to know for certain anything that has happened to anyone. All I can do is give a rational judgement of what is most likely to be the case. I'm sorry if I offended you. The human brain is extremely fallible, and we should be wary of anything that isn't verifiable and doesn't mesh with reality.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
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#24
RE: A person who needs help.....
"What did you exactly intend on doing by calling yourself drfuzzy, knowing that you clearly are not a doctor, when you decided to reply to my OP? You cannot help. Move out of the way and allow space for somebody who really can. This is not the first time I go to an atheist site.  And in case you, claiming to be an atheist, do not know this, let me let you in on the fact that there are some Astoundingly Brilliant Atheists out there. I am going to stick around and try to see if I don't come across one or two on here. Til then, you simply need to move on with you life and avoid making me its centerfold."  -- Orchid

"What did you exactly intend on doing by calling yourself drfuzzy, knowing that you clearly are not a doctor"  I actually am a doctor.  Just not the kind you need.

"there are some Astoundingly Brilliant Atheists out there"    On this we agree.

"Til then, you simply need to move on with you life and avoid making me its centerfold."   Now THAT'S FUNNY, RIGHT THERE!!!!      Clap

Oh definitely, I'm done.  Although I may drop in to see if you post more hilarious stuff.  You're almost as fun as the professor.  
Here:  free online PSYCHOLOGICAL discussion boards.   With real trained psychologists.    online psych discussions
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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#25
RE: A person who needs help.....
Orchids:

You came here looking for help (the title of your thread). We listened to you, even asked questions, and then gave what each of us thought was a helpful response.

In my opinion, what you then gave us in return was an attack. Not a "thanks but I don't agree", but an attack. So obviously you didn't want our honest thoughts. I'm not sure what you expected or wanted. How about "There, there, everything is perfectly OK". That work without an attack response?

I'll continue to monitor this thread but I'm afraid you can't expect much continued support from me.

Still hoping you find a solution and happiness.
God(s) and religions are man made and the bane of humanity. 

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ozzy or Twain/take your pick
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#26
RE: A person who needs help.....
Welcome Orchids. I’m sorry to hear about your mental struggles. I wouldn’t buy into those stories lkingpinl is feeding you. I can hand you hundreds of videos right now on Youtube, from a Near Death Experience Convention, none mentioning any sort of religious experience. They practically all said that they were embraced by a loving spiritual being that they knew was their creator (or they saw their family). No jesus, muhammad, etc. Then, you have the people on T.V. (in the U.S.) that love to bring up hell and jesus, in order to appeal to the predominant christian nation. That’s the problem with eyewitness testimony (and phony reality T.V. shows), you’re going to get a ton of conflicting stories.

lkinpinl is a good guy, and means well, but argues with the presupposition that christianity is true too often. Is the crying mary statue true or is the hindu milk statue miracle true? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_milk_miracle There’s probably a reasonable explanation for both of them if you look hard enough, and the same goes with your visions. People that are predisposed to a religion are more likely to see things that have to do with what they believe. I had dreams of jesus, because I prayed to jesus all the time, he was in my mind. I also, had powerful, vivid dreams of certain hindu gods interacting with me. At the time I ignored them, and focused on the ones that I thought were real. I would listen to others on here, but you may be having hallucinations. I’ve had them before, but upon just awakening from a sleep. I’ve seen two dark man shaped black masses before in my room, but since it wasn’t accompanied with the Hollywood story of objects flying around the room, I had to come to the reasonable conclusion that I had hallucinated that.

Best wishes on trying to explain your visions. I would read up on them on a reputable, unbiased website.

P.S. - Maybe you should be more kind to people that are actually trying to offer you advice. If you want to believe that what you experienced was jesus, then, by all means go for it. After reading the last few posts, it seems like you'd rather attack them for offering you advice, but I'll leave mine anyway, since I took the time to do so. Have a nice day.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' -Isaac Asimov-
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#27
RE: A person who needs help.....
If you really "saw" things within your sight that you know are not physically there, no matter how those visual representation made you feel, you need to go see a doctor, as neglecting it might lead to more serious and even harmful situations.

But if you don't really "see" them and you fully understand and acknowledge them as a manifestation of virtue and well-being you have as a person that your mind made, it's okay.
Reply
#28
RE: A person who needs help.....
(18th September 2015, 12:02)Orchids Wrote: [quote='Orchids' pid='1054578' dateline='1442591531']
That's funny how as I was about to post to the rocket surgeon a thorough reply, it was mysteriously wiped out as I hit the preview botton!!!!
I would simply say 2 things now:
1/-according to the definition of the world seizure below, that is not what I had.

2.
a sudden attack of illness, especially a stroke or an epileptic fit.
"the patient had a seizure"
synonyms:
convulsion, fit, spasm, paroxysm; More

I never had any such things as "spasms", "fit", much less "convulsions".
So NO!! that is not it.

2/- you cannot include the words "vision" and "not genuine" in the same sentence.  If it's a vision it is Genuine. Just because you are not the one who had it does not mean that it never took place.
Thanks for the Addendum, it merits further investigating.

I said a type of seizure. What I was referring to was an event from a condition called Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. It is not like the Grand or Petit Mal seizure, which you defined, above. The type I am describing does not reach to the motor centers, and therefore does not cause any form of physical reaction. A "seizure" in the broader sense is any time the electrical pathways in the brain go awry, and not all parts of the brain cause muscle spasms.

Here is an article summarizing the "God Helmet" phenomena and the articles that have been written about it.

And yes I can include the words "vision" and "not genuine" in the same sentence. A vision that is not genuine is called a "hallucination". As anyone who has taken LSD (or a host of other psychoactive chemicals) can attest, the neurochemistry of the brain is manipulable to the point that we can indeed see things that are not there, or see things that are actually there in a way that is a false interpretation (the "talking to plants" trope) by the brain of the sensory input received. You should realize that all chemicals which work on our brains, from THC to opiates, are able to do so because there are receptors in our brains for those chemicals, and those receptors are there because our bodies make chemicals that manipulate our brains on their own... for instance, the word endorphins (the "reward" chemicals released after exercise, sex, etc., which cause the "runner's high" and our pleasant post-coitus unconsciousness) comes from a mashup of "endogenous morphine", meaning morphine produced from within our genome. We also have endocannabinoids that THC is similar enough to that it can make us "high" by using those same receptors. Why do I bring all this up?

Because you have counter-attacked us for providing information about how your brain works, when your information was wrong, rather than looking up for yourself what we were talking about. Why did you do that? You apparently do not want to understand how your brain actually works, a step you MUST take if you wish to figure out if something is wrong, a step you MUST take before you can possibly begin to feel better.

We would like to help you. Truly we would, as the volume of replies you received should make clear. But don't bite the hand that feeds you, especially after you asked for food.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

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#29
RE: A person who needs help.....
(18th September 2015, 02:57)robvalue Wrote: Orchids: you're most welcome Smile

I can't say for sure what you experienced, however I would be willing to be that it was almost certainly not real. Minds can do very strange things at the best of times, and when under extreme stress they can produce all kinds of weird reactions. I've had hallucinations before, visual and auditory. I simply recognise that the chances of them being a glitch in my brain, which happens to everyone, are drastically higher than it being anything real. Minds also have access to our knowledge, so they are aware of the Jesus mythology you've no doubt been soaked in all your life. If instead you'd been raised in an Islamic country, it would probably have been Mohammad or something.

I'm not being insulting here but genuinely trying to help: when you "who else could it have been" you're committing an error of thinking. A logical fallacy known as the argument from ignorance, I cover it on my webpage. Your mind has come to a conclusion about what it is, and you ask us to demonstrate what else it is. It's impossible for us to know or prove anything about it, but our inability to do so in no way means the explanation your mind has come up with is correct. It's almost certainly the case that it was a mental glitch, but it so happens we can't prove that. But it would be true, nonetheless. Learning to spot errors like this in your thinking may help you push out irrational thoughts Smile I did a video about this, aimed more at people who say "You can't prove God doesn't exist" but it applies here too. Please ask if this is unclear.

http://youtu.be/U0C1bC9iDss

If you have the time, I'd seriously recommend this video. This is a guy who is an expert on the bible, and through a lot of study he makes strong arguments for Jesus (the human) not actually being real at all. He thinks the whole thing is a rewrite of an earlier story. I am inclined to agree. This video also shows how mythology is just copied from earlier mythology. It might make it seem a bit less real.

http://youtu.be/79Lmmy2jfeo
Rob,
That is very very nice of you to post those vids along with your comments. I love that Ph, D. But he sort of shot himself  right on the foot by giving the Roswell analogy.  He really screwed up big time!!! I want you to look up A Geologist that goes by the name of Phil Schneider. He helped the US government build some of what are known as D.U.M.Bs (deep underground military bases). Once he found that the powers that be do not care about the masses and that they spent billions of dollars of the tax payers money to build those bases only for themselves in case of a catastrophic disaster, he went public. They made attempt to kill him at least good 15 times before they finally succeeded in 1996. He was found strangled with one of the intravenous types of "hoses" in a hospital room. He has about 30 recorded lectures on You tube about his experiences and in some of them he recounts where one time they went underground to fix equipment that kept on breaking down for no reasons. Those dumbs btw are built a mile and half underground. They came face to face with a group of, YES, gray humanoids who apparently had a hub right underneath where these guys dug. 66, special agents, green berets, black berets, geologists, engineers and what not died that day as a fire battle broke between the 2 clans!!! It's absolutely Amazing. I believe the guy to the T.

Anyway, He just really discredited himself by stating such example. I need to review your vid and his couple of times before I comment. Thank you so much again. You are a guy I could definitely learn from and look up too.
Much love to you friend!!
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#30
RE: A person who needs help.....
I really hate ism at the end of the word atheist. It merely means off or empty on god claims. While atheists do form clubs, it is not a religion, philosophy, political party, loyalty oath, or moral code. It doesn't even denote class or level of education. We don't agree on everything all the time, we are very diverse on issues of politics and economic views and how to approach religion.
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