The Atheist Obsession with Insulting Christians

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Ok, but again this is not the same thing.  Pregnancy in most cases is not life threatening to the mother or child.  Most cases, it's pretty straightforward process.  Plus, I've already said I don't think abortion should be illegal, because I do believe that scenarios exist where it is justified and/or necessary.  I'm also of the belief that no one should tell a woman what she should do with her body.  I'm trying to show that this choice doesn't just affect her body, but the body of the one living inside of her that is there of a choice she made herself.  And I've already stated my concern for the father's rights as well to that child and some of you have echoed your own disappointment in such a situation, but still respect the woman's choice.  That's fine.  

I'm trying to understand in what scenarios people feel it is ok to terminate a pregnancy and why is it different at different stages?  If you can terminate in week 4, but not in week 30, why?  And if you argue you can terminate in week 30, why not a minute after birth?  If you decide you don't want the child, what's wrong with terminating at any stage?  Look I understand this isn't a light discussion and each case may be unique, so if we are going in circles, we can just leave it alone and move on

Actually, pregnancy does  risk the life of the mother. Abortion is (significantly) statistically safer than having the child, especially in the USA, where we have a shockingly high maternal death rate in childbirth.

Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.

However, that's not why the life is at risk, in the example. The life is at risk simply to place one life at dependency on the other, in order to make a womb-baby analogy. And my point is that it doesn't matter when  we determine that a baby is viable, etc; the woman maintains control of her body so long as she is an incubator for that child, and as long as she is placed at any risk by carrying the child. It's up to her to make that determination for herself, and no one else. So yes, even if she gave birth to a fully-grown adult human, it still would qualify right up to the moment that adult detached itself from her, and irrespective of the reason it got there in the first place.

[Cyberman]

No person has the right to my body even if they need it to survive.

Awww. Not even for half an hour or so?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I find a fertilized yolk every so often when baking.   The blood is a give away.  Is it it a chicken?  Nope.

Actually it is. Any living fertilized egg is a genetically distinct example of that species at its earliest stage of development. I completely agree that a woman owns her own body. The fertilized egg inside her is not her own body; but rather, another very very young human being with its own individual DNA.

Is that supposed to mean something?  Do you think people will give up their freedom just to make you happy because you want them to live by your rules?  If you want to live in prehistoric days give up your indoor plumbing.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Judging from the response I'd have to come up with an STD that causes the genitalia to form a thermonuclear explosion to even remotely get close.

Looks like I gotta go see the doc ... or maybe not ...

[Kingpin]

I'm trying to understand in what scenarios people feel it is ok to terminate a pregnancy and why is it different at different stages?  If you can terminate in week 4, but not in week 30, why?  And if you argue you can terminate in week 30, why not a minute after birth?  If you decide you don't want the child, what's wrong with terminating at any stage?  Look I understand this isn't a light discussion and each case may be unique, so if we are going in circles, we can just leave it alone and move on

IMO all abortion should be legal.

I'm confused about the after the baby has been born thing.... You can't claim bodily autonomy as a reason to kill something that isn't affecting your body. So the reason we can't kill the baby after it's born is the same reason you can't kill a random stranger on the bus.

Ok, so you are a week before your due date and you have a catastrophic life event resulting in you believing it's best not to have the baby at all, you feel it would be ok to terminate at that point?  I'm not judging or condemning you, and commend your honesty.  

I just want to make sure I understand your position is that termination is ok at any time of the pregnancy and for any reason.

[Reforged]

Judging from the response I'd have to come up with an STD that causes the genitalia to form a thermonuclear explosion to even remotely get close.

Looks like I gotta go see the doc ... or maybe not ...

If it just feels like one you're fine.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I updated/edited my post, above, so if you're following the thread in realtime, it's worth going back to re-read. Sorry!

[Reforged]

IMO all abortion should be legal.

I'm confused about the after the baby has been born thing.... You can't claim bodily autonomy as a reason to kill something that isn't affecting your body. So the reason we can't kill the baby after it's born is the same reason you can't kill a random stranger on the bus.

Ok, so you are a week before your due date and you have a catastrophic life event resulting in you believing it's best not to have the baby at all, you feel it would be ok to terminate at that point?  I'm not judging or condemning you, and commend your honesty.  

I just want to make sure I understand your position is that termination is ok at any time of the pregnancy and for any reason.

Is the child John Connor?

[Losty]

Meh. That just takes us right back to the whole. She spread her legs so it serves her right argument. I'm sorry but I don't care if I had a fetus surgically implanted into my body, the second I decide I don't want it there then I should be allowed to have it removed.

I'm not just pro-choice personally. I think more people should abort. If you don't want to be a parent. Abort. If you're selfish. Abort. If you or your partner has a history of physical violence. Abort. We don't need any more unwanted children than we already have. Even 1 more is too many.

Yeah I can see it comes across that way and that's not my intent.  I respect your right and opinion on the issue Losty.  I was an unwanted child so I know the horrors that some of those can endure.  My step-father told me once he tried to have my mother get an abortion and they seriously considered it.  I'm personally glad they didn't.

Of course you are. But if they had aborted...you wouldn't have regretted being aborted because you would have never existed to have such regrets.

And I'm sorry you know how it feels to be an unwanted child. I....I know how it feels to be an unloved child. My parents never considered abortion and I was a planned pregnancy for them. My parents just suck as human beings in general.

Our social system in the US is drowning in kids with shitty parents. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would condone someone giving birth to an unwanted child.

[Cyberman]

Is the child John Connor?

Or Justin Bieber?