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RE: Hello
September 22, 2015 at 4:10 pm
(This post was last modified: September 22, 2015 at 4:12 pm by MTL.)
(September 22, 2015 at 3:41 pm)BlackBird Wrote: Hello, everyone.
I thought I would make an account and introduce myself.
I grew up in a pretty fundamentalist family in an evangelical church, and bought the whole thing hook line and sinker for years. Deconversion was a long painful process that started with me finding a lot of questions I knew I couldn't answer to my satisfaction. Eventually I hit a critical mass, panicked, and stopped thinking about religion at all. After I had a bit of distance, I looked at everything again, did some reading and some thinking, and decided that none of it made any sense.
So now I have been an athiest for a few years. My husband knows, but I still haven't told my family. They know I don't go to church, and seem to have adopted a "don't ask if you don't want to know" policy, which is working fine for the moment.
I've been thinking a lot about it again recently because I'm afraid of what will happen when it becomes obvious that I am not indoctrinating my son as a True Christian™. He's too little right now for it to be an issue, but I want to be prepared for either a) having to come out or b) possible attempts at behind-the-back indoctrination. I'd hope they wouldn't try that, but I can't say for sure. On the one hand, nobody even mentioned the lack of a baptism, on the other, my mom JUST liked a post on Facebook about how she'll fight tooth and nail on her knees for her kids and grandkids to have a relationship with Jesus.
I might not post a lot. I'm mostly doing a lot of reading and thinking.
Welcome! 
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've read a story similar to yours.
He's your kid, not theirs.
Would Christian parents like it, if you tried "behind-the-back" Atheist indoctrination?
You have every right to openly forbid this, and enforce it if necessary.
Grandparents, contrary to what they might think, don't have any right, whatsoever,
to "fight" to "indoctrinate" their grandkids.
Just the opposite, actually.
I confess, I find the idea of anyone who seeks to "indoctrinate" a kid with ANY ideas,
other than respect for themselves and for others,
keeping an open mind, and learning to think critically for themselves,
pretty reprehensible.
How about just roundly educating the kid and letting him make up his own mind,
in the long run?
Anyway, I sympathize and welcome you, again.
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RE: Hello
September 22, 2015 at 5:07 pm
(September 22, 2015 at 4:03 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Hello and Welcome (yellow winged?) BlackBird!
My view on your mom's post, don't give it to much power. Shit, look around at some of the rantings posted here. It's easy on the net, much more difficult in real life.
Just curious. Does this have something to do with your name selection?
That was my first thought, too. Had you not already posted the video, I was going to, and tell her to "take these broken wings and learn to fly".
As MTL said, your story is more the norm than an oddity among us. (I grew up in an evangelical Christian home so TrueChristian™ that we had no cable for our television so that my folks could control what we watched on the VCR, thus ensuring that cable, which was, quote, "Satan's way of sneaking into the home", would not influence us.) So you'll fit right in. Don't be shy.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Hello
September 22, 2015 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: September 22, 2015 at 5:37 pm by Alex K.)
(September 22, 2015 at 4:06 pm)BlackBird Wrote: Mmmm, berries and everything! *swoon*
The individual post didn't bother me too much, but it is pretty indicative of her general mindset.
Hmm, too bad, but still... I think that her liking that post by someone else isn't the same as her writing it. She may just have felt compelled to applaud the sentiment on display because of her faith (kind of like when they spontaneously yell AMEN in church in response to the pastor speaking passionately), but that doesn't mean that she would actually act like that herself.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Hello
September 22, 2015 at 5:49 pm
Quote: I've been thinking a lot about it again recently because I'm afraid of what will happen when it becomes obvious that I am not indoctrinating my son as a True Christian™.
Whatever happened to "mind your own goddamn business?"
In some families you might want to tone that down a bit...in others, you might need to beef it up.
Welcome.
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RE: Hello
September 22, 2015 at 8:54 pm
Yeah, I'm probably worrying about it too much. If I need to say "back off", I will. I just worry because we're still pretty close and my mom can be a bit forceful, so if that day comes, it will not be much fun.
It's good to know I'm not alone. We weren't quite into "no cable" territory, but my mom did sit me down for "the Evolution talk". Y'know, "In school, they are going to try to teach you about evolution..."
Funnily enough, we don't have cable now. It's much more convenient to binge-watch my favorite shows on Netflix.
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RE: Hello
September 23, 2015 at 12:03 am
And another belated welcome from AU. Enjoy!
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Hello
September 23, 2015 at 12:08 am
That is my favorite Beatles song.
 Blackbird!
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Hello
September 23, 2015 at 4:08 am
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2015 at 4:34 am by robvalue.)
Hiya, nice to meet you
Sorry you had to go through the deconversion stage, I imagine it must be horrible. But congratulations on fighting your way through to atheism
Sneaky indoctrination is always a problem. My advice would be to concentrate on teaching your child critical thinking skills. No need to preach at him "there is no God" like some theists seem to think atheists do. If you teach him how to think logically, he will likely recognise any sort of indoctrination for the nonsense it is. And if he comes to you with questions about religion, I recommend using a series of questions in return to help him come to his own conclusions (the Socratic method). It's more effective to enable someone to realise for themselves why something is nonsense, rather than just telling them it's nonsense.
However, children are vulnerable when very young, before the age of reason. If people start trying to program him in this window, then you're more than justified in telling them to back off.
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RE: Hello
September 23, 2015 at 8:57 am
Thanks everyone!
Robvalue, I agree, preaching the reverse doesn't sound like a good idea either. I was thinking of a "vaccination" of critical thinking skills, science, and books about lots of different religions/mythologies, plus the honest answering of any questions. I like the idea of the Socratic method.
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RE: Hello
September 23, 2015 at 2:01 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2015 at 2:02 pm by robvalue.)
That all sounds very sensible
Your son is inevitably going to encounter religion, along with all manner of other crazy ideas. So the best you can do is prepare him with the best thinking tools. He is then best placed to make up his mind for himself.
I was raised without any sort of religion, I was taught how to think. Religion and God wasn't even mentioned. At the age of 5 I first encountered religion at school, and I was already more than prepared for it. My parents never told me to "watch out for it" or anything like that. I just saw through it right away.
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