The Christian Cross in Astrology

[Rhondazvous]

The other day, in another thread, I made an assertion about the way Christianity borrowed the symbol of the cross from paganism, particularly astrology. This assertion was challenged, not by Christians as I would have expected, but by fellow atheists who suggested I check my sources.

Okay, I’m no different from the next person. I don’t like people slapping my babies. It stings. At the same time, I recognized this challenge as an opportunity to raise my own standards of what constitutes proof. So I did look further and what I found is quite interesting. Apparently, I was right in some things, but unsupportable in others. It seems that Christianity borrowed its crucifixion story from elements of both the winter solstice and the vernal equinox. My original assertion ascribed everything to the winter solstice and further reading did not support that.

The symbol of the cross involves both equinoxes and solstices—4 points that describe a cross. Different cultures may also have other traditions for associating the death of the sun god with a cross, but it seems to be a universal tradition in the ancient world.

The Cross as a Pagan Symbol
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ab...rigins.htm

During the winter solstice, the sun is directly over the Tropic of Capricorn. You don’t have to believe in astrology to acknowledge that this is the name given to a specific area on the globe.

http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/imagee.htm

Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn
Located at 23.5 degrees North and 23.5 degrees south of the Equator.

Contrary to my original assertion, the women god showed his prophet in Ezekiel 8:14 were lamenting Tammuz’s death at the vernal equinox, not the winter solstice. Neither could I find any sources supporting a connection between the winter solstice and the 3 day death. All sources suggest that the solstice lasts for 1 day—December 21st under the present Gregorian calendar but December 25th under the Julian calendar used in the ancient world. Oddly enough, elements from the solstice are used for both the birth and the death of Jesus, yet the Church saw no need to reestablish the connection between Christianity and astrology by changing the holiday when the calendar changed.

The gist of my assertions still stand, that the Christian cross has its roots in paganism and astrology.

[GrandizerII]

That was me. I still don't agree, but props to you anyway for researching and checking this out for yourself. That's the main thing that matters at the end of the day, whether we're right or wrong as a result. Spaghetti god knows how many times I've been wrong and always will end up saying some things wrong.

[Rhondazvous]

That was me. I still don't agree, but props to you anyway for researching and checking this out for yourself. That's the main thing that matters at the end of the day, whether we're right or wrong as a result. Spaghetti god knows how many times I've been wrong and always will end up saying some things wrong.

I hear you. Being wrong is just something we humans are sometimes. If I'm at point A, I won't get to point B by pretending like I'm already there. I'd be the only dummy on this forum who doesn't know that.

[dyresand]

christianity stealing shit and yet saying stealing is a sin when christianity stolen from other myths no wonder why
there is so much hypocrites in the christian religion.

[Rhondazvous]

Like our boy/girl? sinnerdaniel explained it, anything to spread the word.

Christians have murdered in the name of Jesus. Why should they shy away from stealing.

Then they want to tell us we need god to give us moral absolutes. Get the fuck outta here.

[Mr Greene]

Certainly christianity has stolen a lot from other cultures and belief systems, including astrology. Though the specific point was an obviously anachronistic (modern) retro-fit drawing on sources that were unavailable during the period christianity formed and adopted it's iconography.
We've all fallen into the trap of citing incorrect sources the important thing is to correct that and improve our conclusions based on new evidence. Something the opposition is rather characteristically averse to.

[Mudhammam]

Like others said, kudos for doing the research, but I don't really see the logic in your argument if you're saying that the cross didn't become a popular emblem in Christianity because of the suffering that the Christians' god endured, and whose example they thought must be followed. If anything, the prevalence of similar designs in other art or architecture or religious iconography would have only strengthened their view that Christ was the pinnacle of human history, that everything hitherto had been pointing towards, his final act being foreshadowed in both pagan mythology (and philosophy) and the Hebrew scriptures; a universal symbol like the cross would only further affirm this given their beliefs about Christ. Anyway, the cross actually was an instrument of torture in popular use at the time.