Objectifying women

[Godhead]

In this mind -

No the blame is with the rapist. The foolishness is with the woman, for ignoring the risk.

[In This Mind]

If the woman had not been foolish and ignored the risk, she would not have been raped. Therefore the woman was raped because she was foolish and ignored the risk.

I cannot explain it more simply than that. You are now standing with your hand in water and denying it is wet.

You are blaming the victim. You are holding the victim responsible for the crime occurring.

My leaving the door unlocked did not cause my house to be robbed. Before the door being locked even came into play the thief had to make the decision to come to my house to rob it. The door being locked would not have changed the outcome, the thief had already decided to rob.

A woman wearing sexy clothes does not incite or attract rape. The rapist has already decided to rape. Her clothing is not a factor. Her clothing cannot cause a man who would not otherwise rape to rape. Her clothing is not a factor. Her actions cannot cause a man who would not otherwise rape to rape. Her actions are not a factor.

You are placing blame on the victim. There are two motivations for this. Because I am nice, I have thus far attributed the first motivation to you, that of you don't want to admit it can happen to any woman. Because you are continuing to deny it, I am forced to wonder if the second motivation is more accurate.

Perhaps the truth is that you have fantasies about raping a woman in sexy cloths, therefore you can identify with the rapist who targets a woman in sexy clothes. Because you do not like thinking of yourself as a rapist, you instead cope by placing the blame onto the woman. If she wasn't dressed like she was asking for it, you wouldn't be inclined to give it to her.

It's your problem, not the woman's.

[Godhead]

In his mind -

If the woman had not been foolish and not ignored the risk, her chances of being raped would almost certainly be reduced, correct. If the woman ignores the risk, she increases the chances of getting raped, that's right. No one is blaming the victim, but you can be a foolish victim. If you aren't careful, then yes you are partly responsible for the potential outcome and it certainly becomes her problem, the other part of the responsibility of course being with the rapist.

[In This Mind]

If the woman had not been foolish and not ignored the risk, her chances of being raped would almost certainly be reduced, correct.

Bullshit.

Complete, utter, 100% bullshit.

And that's the part you are trying desperately not to get.

Women are raped in sweatpants in their own homes. A woman's clothing and actions had no effect on whether or not a man is a rapist.

Here is the fundamental truth:

Either a woman's actions has not effect on whether or not she is raped, or you are admitting that under certain circumstances a woman could incite you to rape.

It's one or the other.

[Godhead]

In tis mind -

That's right, women are raped in all sorts of circumstances. And her chances of having it happen to her increase when she foolishly abdicates responsibility for the potential outcomes of her actions or inactions, namely not being careful.

[Dotard]

ITM,

No one has said if you take heed of simple commom sense advice on avoiding sexual assault it will guarantee your safety. You are harping on as if that is what is being said. What is being said is avoiding risks can help prevent opportunity for rapists to strike. Period.

Your judgement of the men here is clouded by your emotionally driven arguements. I'd agree with Godhead. You may have talked and been counseled and counseled others but you are not demonstrating you have closure.

If you had a client whom you were counselling because she keeps getting repeatedly raped and you know she walks to the store or where ever in a G-string bikini, you would not advise her to stop doing that? If she repeatedly gets drunk at the local hole-in-the-wall and has a habit of, when drunk, dancing on the tables hiking her skirt up showing her ass, you wouldn't include in your counselling session advice to stop doing that and she may decrease her risks?

---

I am compelled to add;

If you seek answers to why rape occurs and what are it's triggers, whos contentions on the matter carry the most weight? Who do you believe can answer those questions, the rapists or the victims?

---

And another thing;

You came in here and asked a specific question, "What could I have done to avoid what happened to me?"
If we were to actually answer that question it has become apparent from your subsequent posts you would have attacked us for doing so.

Your personal opinion on why rape occurs, even as a victim, does not truth make.

I'll go with the opinions of the evolutionary biologists and rapists when seeking the answer to that question.

[In This Mind]

And her chances of having it happen to her increase when she foolishly abdicates responsibility for the potential outcomes of her actions or inactions,

So it is her fault for not taking responsibility for herself.

So, what's your turn on? What do you like women to wear when you fantasize about raping them?

[tavarish]

yes, you did. Here, let me quote you:

"What me and others are saying is that women who wear revealing clothing may attract attention, and should safeguard against any ill that can happen from this."

A sugarcoated way of saying "don't wear revealing clothing unless you are already on a man's arm and he can protect you.'

Heard it before.

...Yes, because the only way not to get in a car accident is not to drive.


It's clear you're just making straw men, and coming to conclusions no one made. Since when does "safeguard against" mean "stay home" or "get a man to protect you"? Where did I even imply this? Learn to read what is written, not what you would like it to say.

A sugarcoated way of saying "Don't leave your house"

Heard it before.

You are saying 'stay home and kick rocks'. Because that's the ONLY way to safeguard yourself. Stay in your house, behind a locked door, with locked and barred windows, with a good security system, a phone in one hand and a gun in the other.

Ok, at this point you're not arguing with me, because I never made a point even CLOSE to what you're asserting, in fact I said the EXACT opposite of everything you said.

A sugarcoated way of saying "Live your life in paranoia and fear"

Heard it before.

LOL. Sure - whatever you want. It can mean stay in your basement with a flashlight and a flyswatter if you wish, since we're constructing straw men and baseless assertions.

You are trying to sugarcoat it and thus claim it isn't what you are saying, but sorry, I've had way to many years of practice seeing through that kind of bullshit.

You apparently need some practice in reading what is written and not going on tangents fueled by your emotions and fallacious fucking arguments.

A woman has NO control over whether or not she is raped.

Uh huh. You're telling me a woman has no control over being raped, and then you're saying I'm promoting paranoia?

Sweetie, I got LUCKY. Lucky in that he chose broad fucking daylight with other people around to attack. Had he instead struck when I was closing up the office, I'd have been raped. I got lucky in that my rapist, a 6'4" tall construction worker who outmassed me by around 150lbs and had a foot of reach on me was stupid enough to attack after calling my attention to his presence while I happened a weapon already in my hand.

And had there not been other people on the job site who heard the commotion, again, purely through luck as they were coming back to get something out of the vehicles, I'd have been raped AND quite likely killed.

Hey, you remember the part where I said in some instances it's unavoidable? Remember that?

Remember how I said safeguard yourself in case such a situation happens? Did you not just say you had a weapon in your hand, effectively safeguarding yourself from rape? Did I say in any way you were responsible for the attempt?

So, enlighten me, on knowledgeable one. What 'safeguarding' and 'diffusing' did I actually have any control over? I didn't make my rapist a stupid inbred impulsive hick, so how exactly did I control the situation? He chose the time. He chose the place. He chose me. All the choices were his. I had absolutely no choices at all in the issue. Without choice, what control did I have?

You had a fucking weapon in your hand, which obviously worked in your favor. You made a lot of noise, which obviously worked in your favor. Do you get it now?

A woman bears absolutely no responsibility or blame for being raped or attacked. The only person who has any choice in the matter, any responsibility, or any blame is the rapist.

Now please point out to me where I said anything to the contrary, cause I can sure as hell point out where I've said your statement, almost verbatim. Keep your straw men at bay and be accurate. I tend to say exactly what I mean, and don't beat around the bush.

Go ahead.

Anyone who says otherwise is degrading and objectifying women and is part of the reason 1 in 4 women are raped and the conviction rate is so low. Anyone who says otherwise is the reason many women choose not to report their rapes rather than have to deal with judgmental bastards who question their actions and thus put the responsibility onto them for not being 'nice girls'.

OK, cool. Who the fuck are you talking about? I don't think anyone advocates anything you're writing about here.

Do you know how many women have committed suicide because of dealing with people who made comments like 'well, if you dressed like that, what did you expect?'

And? This isn't relevant at all to anything I've said.

Due to people like you and Tav making excuses for why men rape and the role a woman's actions prior to the rape play, he had plenty of time left after his less than a year in jail to go on to rape several more.

Excuse me?

It's not enough you go an some kind of childish emotionally driven tirade and make some ridiculous caricature of my argument, and then attempt to burn it down, now you're telling me I support rape?

Fuck you.

Take your silly fucking arguments and shove them on someone who gives a shit. I made my point abundantly clear lots of times in this thread, and I never advocated, tolerated, instigated, or supported any talk of a rape being justified in any context. If you had realized that before launching head first into your useless assertions we could have had a decent discussion.

[In This Mind]

If you had a client whom you were counselling because she keeps getting repeatedly raped and you know she walks to the store or where ever in a G-string bikini, you would not advise her to stop doing that? If she repeatedly gets drunk at the local hole-in-the-wall and has a habit of, when drunk, dancing on the tables hiking her skirt up showing her ass, you wouldn't include in your counselling session advice to stop doing that and she may decrease her risks?

---

Ah, so, women are only raped when they are acting like sluts?

If you seek answers to why rape occurs and what are it's triggers, whos contentions on the matter carry the most weight? Who do you believe can answer those questions, the rapists or the victims?

Both, actually. Rapists use the words 'she was asking for it' to blame the victim the same way you do. But it comes down to rape being not about the victim, but about the rapist and HIS issues.

You came in here and asked a specific question, "What could I have done to avoid what happened to me?"
If we were to actually answer that question it has become apparent from tour subsequent post you would have attacked us for doing so.

Yep. I would have. Because you'd have been wrong.

Your personal opinion on why rape occurs, even as a victim, does not truth make.

It's not my personal opinion.

I'll go with the opinions of the evolutionary biologists and rapists when seeking the answer to that question.

Then you are in full agreement with me. Interesting, isn't that?

---

Hey, you remember the part where I said in some instances it's unavoidable? Remember that?

Remember how I said safeguard yourself in case such a situation happens? Did you not just say you had a weapon in your hand, effectively safeguarding yourself from rape? Did I say in any way you were responsible for the attempt?

Yes, you did. When you stated 'if she'd been safeguarding herself'. I safeguarded myself. I was still attacked.

You had a fucking weapon in your hand, which obviously worked in your favor. You made a lot of noise, which obviously worked in your favor.

And it didn't prevent the attack, do you get it now?

Now please point out to me where I said anything to the contrary

I have. Multiple times.

Go ahead.

OK, cool. Who the fuck are you talking about? I don't think anyone advocates anything you're writing about here.

You and Godhead are, for starters.

And? This isn't relevant at all to anything I've said.

You seriously don't get how it is relevant to what you said? Seriously?

You stated that a woman should take responsibility for her own safety and not dress to get attention, and don't see how that could cause a guilt complex for a woman who got raped?

It's not enough you go an some kind of childish emotionally driven tirade and make some ridiculous caricature of my argument, and then attempt to burn it down, now you're telling me I support rape?

Yes. I am. You are supporting rape culture by placing the blame on the woman by essentially stating that she was fucking asking for it by wearing sexy clothes on a dark street.

So, no, sweetie. FUCK YOU and your kind. You are the reason date rapists regularly walk free and women keep their silence. There is no difference between 'apportioning responsibility' and 'blame'. You are blaming the victim.

[Dotard]

AND WE HAVE A BINGO!

ITM has revealed what's happening here. She demonstrates that anyone who disagrees with her on this matter is a rapist themselves. They must admit since they disagree then they can be inticed to rape and fantasize about raping.

Ok, you wanna play that game? Play with me. Ask me that question. I'll tell you exactly what I like a woman to wear when I fantisize about raping them.