Objectifying women

[In This Mind]

Or, as one rapist already admitted, they'd just rape her anyway, they'd just hurt her worse.

The only rapists in this thread are the ones in your overactive imagination.

Hey, asshole? I cited several links in my posts to provide evidence for my statements, including one that interviewed several rapists among others.

Way to not pay the slightest fucking bit of attention to reality dude!

[Tiberius]

If it is so obvious, provide some proof of it.

I'll try, but I haven't found any good sites that list stats about circumstances involving rape yet. I'll get back to you.

On an additional point, you said a while back that rape is increasing; well, according to the largest US anti-sexual assault group, this is a big lie: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/sta...al-assault

"Rape has decreased by 60% since 1993."

I also have a question for you, namely about your continual assertion that there isn't anything you can do to prevent a rape. If this is true, why are there so many websites advocating "tips" for avoiding rape: http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe...iding+rape and why are there devices out there (like rape alarms) being sold to women? Do you think these have absolutely no effect?

Do you comprehend how unfeasible it is to suggest all women travel in packs? So, on the many occasions in which it is impossible, a woman should just accept it's partially her fault she was attacked?

Again, you fail to understand my point. Risks aren't set in stone. Walking 1 mile alone doesn't hold the same risk as walking 10m alone. If the girl has to take the risk, she has to take the risk. At no point is it her fault, or even partially her fault for getting raped. We've never argued that; we've consistently said that the fault lies with the rapist, but there are actions the woman can take to avoid rape in the first place.

I hardly think there are "many" occasions in which it is impossible for a woman to find an alternate way home. Most women have friends they can rely on; most taxi drivers I think would prefer to see a woman home safely, even if they had to trust her to pay them back at a later date.

Hey, asshole? I cited several links in my posts to provide evidence for my statements, including one that interviewed several rapists among others.

Way to not pay the slightest fucking bit of attention to reality dude!

Well firstly, my apologies, I misread your original quote. I took it to mean you thought someone in this thread (Dotard sprung to mind) was a rapist who had said this. Obviously that was wrong.

However, please try to keep civil. You don't need to call me an asshole because I disagree with you, or because I misread something.

[Edwardo Piet]

Why are going ignoring the fact that this 'really obvious' stuff doesn't apply? As I've pointed out, most women are raped by people they know, and I've also cited an instance where it was a cab driver who was the rapist. This fantasy you have of a woman being grabbed off the streets to be attacked is the rarest form of rape, and even then, it's rarely random, the rapist usually stalks the target.

All I'm saying is that a woman could perhaps avoid being raped by taking precautions.

Why do you persist in claiming this advice is 'common sense', when it has been repeatedly proven to not be?

Are you saying that a woman amongst a group of women is equally likely to be raped than a woman walking alone?

Are you like so many misogynists who believe a woman who likes feeling sexy is asking for abuse?

No.

So you admit you are blaming the victim, but now you are trying to pretend that's not a bad thing.

No. Read what I said again.

You remind me now of teachers who advise the victim (just as uselessly) to change their behavior to avoid bullying because it is too much work to actually do something about the bullies.

Bad analogy.

You'll also find people who advise a rape victim to just 'lay there and take it' instead of fighting back. Their advice is just as valid, and just as disgustingly useless, as yours is.

Once again your misunderstood my post. All I'm saying is that the victims could take precautions, not that they should.

EvF

[Godhead]

In this mind -

You mentioned earlier about men objectifying women. Women are sex objects, we all are. If men never looked at women as sex objects and if women never looked at men as sex objects, no one would ever have sex. It's called sexual desire. When you have sex, is sexual desire involved? Well, if you do, then I'm sure it does. Or perhaps it doesn't but if that's the case then you're in a bizarre minority.

[Violet]

So in addition to being a 'nice girl', one has to be a 'popular girl' as we

Not necessarily... there are such things as:

http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/...%20eye.jpg

http://www.dcsa.bizland.com/10-handguns.jpg

Or if you are kinda rich: http://www.privateinvestigator.co.za/Ima...yguard.gif

Plenty of interesting ways to protect one's person (or their things) are available to just about anyone. Some are more effective than others... but one can repurpose a great number of things to threaten great injury upon attackers

My friend was raped in a public area. There are women who have been raped on a subway with other people around. Sexual assaults and groping in public is commonplace.

Then always take a close quarters combat weapon (or fifty) with you in said places. Perhaps don't mingle with the crowd (yet stay in clear sight of it).

Are often useless when the time comes.

How so?

Ah, so, if I was more observant, I wouldn't have been attacked, right?

If you were observant and acted off of what you observed... then very likely yes. It does you no good to be the most observant thing in the universe to not act when you should. And acting without observing can often be as bad or worse.

No, just one of the largest and most common reasons. Having dealt with people like you since my attack, who like to 'help' by pointing out all the things I theoretically could have done to 'avoid' the attack, sometimes I wish I'd kept my mouth shut too. But then, that wouldn't help. Rubbing your nose in your crap and trying to make you understand how your BLAME of the woman does not and will not help the situation other than to silence women, that might just help.

If you are a jeweler, and a someone takes some of your jewels because you left them all in open cases... I should rather think telling you things you could have done to avoid it happening would be of foremost use to you... and sometimes these things are not so "common sense" as you seem to think.

And I suppose rubbing the dog's face in the crap they left on your kitchen floor doesn't help the situation either...?

Because if it wasn't for people like you, rape wouldn't be such a life destroying ordeal. A woman would only have to suffer the attack. She wouldn't have to suffer the judgmental eyes of people like you, people who will always weigh and measure her and wonder how she contributed to the attack. Because if they'd just behaved properly and looked out for themselves, they wouldn't have been attacked.

I disagree... as one can easily do their best and still not do well enough. There is absolutely nothing 'wrong' (as I see it) with people forming judgements... and I do not believe that many people even often (and hardly always) wonder how the raped individual contributed to the raping. Indeed... if you would so kindly read from page 1: this concept was heavily argued from the onset (that the victim contributes to 'the crime')... and has been argued in more than just this thread. Fact is: people don't always think that the raped were in any way responsible for being raped... and indeed I think few people (in relation to the rest) understand that the victim is quite often a part of the causal chain of the event that is considered a crime. Fewer still hold the victim as a responsible entity in said crime.

It's how people like you live with yourselves. It's how you convince yourselves that you and your loved ones are safe. After all, none of your loved ones are tawdry sluts and they take care of themselves and look out for themselves, so they won't be raped, right?

I live with myself by convincing myself (and my loved ones) I'm safe? Hardly. I hope that safety is what I have... but I do not trust it. I have faith that the ground will not suddenly vanish beneath my feet... but I do not have faith that the car traveling my direction will not hit me while I'm walking on the road. I actually adapt to a number of dangers... because safety really is fleeting. It's all I can do to prepare against what I can reasonably expect.

It's easier to measure out responsibility to the victim than it is to actually do something about rape. Because you objectify women, and you don't want to deal with the simple fact that your behavior contributes to rape culture. It's easier to blame the victim than it is to cope with the fact that some of your thoughts mirror those of the rapist.

???? I don't mind if the rapist is also aware that the victim is likely at some fault. What is rape culture?????? 0.o

The 'damaged goods', it's amusing your mind leaped there immediately. Well, disgusting might be a better word for it. It illustrates that your thought processes go exactly what I described above. Your girl got raped, so she isn't a 'nice girl' anymore, and since she's just an object, dump her and get a new one.

Every thing is an object. You are a thing, just as I am a thing. Being an object does not make you worthless... but rather: it makes you REAL.

If it wasn't for people like you apportioning blame, fewer guys would think that way. But hey, easier to blame the victim than it is to make yourself a better person.

And what would you have us do with blame instead? Does it matter all that much what some guys think? I can't think of a better person than myself

---

...Yes, because the only way not to get in a car accident is not to drive.

Though that's not to say someone can't run you over while you're walking ^_^

[In This Mind]

4
However, please try to keep civil. You don't need to call me an asshole because I disagree with you, or because I misread something.

ROTFLMAO

You insulted me, you got insulted back. Deal.

I'm done with the misogyny in this thread.

If it was so fucking simple to avoid sexual assault, sexual assault would be a thing of the past instead of something 1 in 4 women my age is a victim of.

blame
   /bleɪm/ Show Spelled [bleym] Show IPA verb, blamed, blam·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.to hold responsible; find fault with; censure: I don't blame you for leaving him.
2.to place the responsibility for (a fault, error, etc.) (usually fol. by on ): I blame the accident on her.
3.Informal . blast; damn (used as a mild curse): Blame the rotten luck.
–noun
4.an act of attributing fault; censure; reproof: The judge said he found nothing to justify blame in the accident.
5.responsibility for anything deserving of censure: We must all share the blame for this deplorable condition.
—Idiom
6.to blame, at fault; censurable: I am to blame for his lateness.


Remember kids, it's your fault you were bullied! If you only changed, it would all be alright. We can't be bothered to do something about the bullies, so you are on your own.

[Cego_Colher]

The 'damaged goods', it's amusing your mind leaped there immediately. Well, disgusting might be a better word for it. It illustrates that your thought processes go exactly what I described above. Your girl got raped, so she isn't a 'nice girl' anymore, and since she's just an object, dump her and get a new one.

the reason in jumped into my mind so quickly is because I actually read something about it in The Murderer Next Door by David Buss.

Indeed many men whose partners have been raped express the feeling of being left with "damaged goods." They reported that they cannot bear the thought of remaining with a woman who has been sexually violated by another man. according to one study more then 80% of couples in which the woman was raped during their relationship end up breaking up.

P.129 also cites-- Leyton, Hunting Humans


No one, is saying it is the woman's fault and hell, it's not something that is simple to avoid.

Well, if she's leaving. I'm reading a book a Natural History of Rape suggests that rape is not about power it is either an adaptation or by-product of an adaptation for a male to have more children. thoughts?

[Godhead]

In this mind -

Seek help immediately. I'm not making fun of you, I really think you need to stop squabbling with people on forums and see someone asap.

[Violet]

Dressing to avoid being cold is something you have direct control over. Since rape involves the actions and motivations of someone who isn't you, how do you have any control over it?

Sometimes you do not have direct control over it. As for controlling other people... that is called manipulation, a thing some of us are quite good at. And you have as much control over not wearing a bikini as you do over wearing those winter clothes.

Joe rapes women who wear blue. Jack rapes women who wear red. Jim rapes women who don't wear anything either red or blue. So, what exactly is a woman supposed to wear?

Which are all atypical... as I noted right in this here bold:

Clothes matter... to soldiers their apparel can be life and death. To arctic dwellers as well is clothing of utmost importance (when it comes to survival). The effect of clothing upon a situation can vary from being of minimal impact to dwarfing all. As it turns out, there is a very successful market for making people appear sexually appealing to others via clothing... and wearing such clothes can at the least be expected to typically excite more sexual attraction towards the wearer than would be common for them without. As such... it is clear that clothing has some effect upon wether a person appears sexually attractive... and it is not a very large jump from there to suggest that in at least some cases: clothing choice can at times be expected to further excite a person about to rape another (and indeed... perhaps is sometimes among the core causes of why the rape took place at all, if you will note the bold in the above quote).

It is not so much what to wear... as it is what not to wear. However... if you wear clothes that either a: make you appear as male, or b: make your sex unclear... you are likely to avoid many of the rapists that would target women.

Clothing is never the core cause of why rape took place. Ever. What is the core cause is a man's desire to degrade a woman.

And I disagree. I believe this point has been made quite clear a number of times in this forum... a few times in this thread even. Further, people are mostly concerned with themself... and what they want. A rapist that would go out specifically to find an adult female human to rape probably doesn't give a damn about how it feels for her... and is rather raping her because he enjoys fucking women.

And you are doing the same thing. You are degrading her by telling her she needs to dress like a frump to avoid attack. That's your version of using sex to degrade her. Either she conforms, or she risks attack. It's all about controlling the woman.

One almost always risks "attack". That is why we must defend what is ours. Indeed:

Possession is nine tenths of the law, and they have established that a certain planet did not, in fact, belong to me after all, because I was unable to protect it.

If dressing like a frump is necessary to avoid attack, and a woman values not being attacked more than she does not dressing like a frump: that is her prerogative. She allows risk because she enjoys a certain thing that she can only have by taking that risk. If I enjoy the welcoming feeling of my jewelry shop, with jewels laid out in the open... and I value that look more than I do not being stolen from: that is my prerogative. I allow risk because I enjoy a certain thing I can only have by taking that risk.

It is not about controlling women... it is about understanding that we are responsible for our own folly.

Here is the simple truth.

The only factor in whether or not a woman is sexually assaulted is whether or not she crosses paths with a man (or another woman) inclined to sexually assault her.

Period.

All else is deluded and wishful thinking on the parts of misogynists who objectify women and women who desperately want to believe it can't happen to them.

Luckily for me (or so I believe)... I am not so naive. You are missing out aliens that are of neither gender... androids... and non-human lifeforms on our planet. Not to mention other things I didn't think of

Evidently you have a low opinion indeed of women and their capacity to defend themselves. Just who is the one objectifying women here? Are they a bunch of helpless little princesses from a Disney movie?

---

I'm done with the misogyny in this thread.

Evidently someone here hates women? Well allow me to be the ray of sunshine for us all: I women ^_^

If it was so fucking simple to avoid sexual assault, sexual assault would be a thing of the past instead of something 1 in 4 women my age is a victim of.

If 25% of the adult female population has been raped... did it ever occur to them not to party so much?

Remember kids, it's your fault you were bullied! If you only changed, it would all be alright. We can't be bothered to do something about the bullies, so you are on your own.

It is indeed your fault. You weren't threatening enough to not be bullied. Welcome to what it is to be weak

[Tiberius]

You insulted me, you got insulted back. Deal.

Big difference between being insulting and being offensive / swearing. In this thread I've been accused of being a rapist by proxy, of being a misogynist, and anything else you cared to accuse us of. Like I said before, you don't listen to the points being made; you just assume we are all being bigots and hate women. That isn't a way to progress in a conversation.

I claim you have an overactive imagination, and I still hold to that. I think it's obvious to anyone who reads your posts. You take everything literally. When two guys started making fun of the subject and talked about rape fantasies, you went on to "reveal" them as rapists. Newsflash for you; people like to joke around, and generally speaking (at least on the internet), the most controversial or taboo the subject is, the more people you'll find willing to joke about it.

I'm done with the misogyny in this thread.

You have no evidence or proof of *any* misogyny. It is all in your mind.

If you don't want to discuss in this thread anymore, fine. Maybe we'll be able to have some decent conversation now.