Objectifying women

[Violet]

Why would they fire me up?

I don't rightly know, to be honest ^_^ Your posts do reek of some serious emotions though

In fact, I should thank you. You have demonstrated for several people on this board exactly what is so disgusting about victim-blaming behavior. You have provided a wonderful example of why such behavior should be rejected by revealing it's true roots.

You're welcome ^_^ I did what now???? :S

May your post stand as illumination for the others who have taken your side on just how revolting their behavior has been now that they can see it with the sugar-coated veil of 'we are just looking out for you girls' removed. Thank you for revealing the true purpose of this 'well-meaning advice', to silence and control women.

"My side"?

I don't see where any "veil" of looking out for people has been even slightly blown on... perhaps you can enlighten me further of how any of what I said above was/is revolting?

And again you connect me with motives of silencing and controlling people (particularly: women)

I suppose all women really are pathetic little skids what can't do anything to control their world. You have convinced me (with your impressive use of non-sequitur) that all women are utterly powerless (including myself) to influence and interact with the world around them. O' woe is us! Let's have a pity party! What's that? Husband won't let you, or his six other wives? For shame... I'll go drown my sorrows... after all, getting drunk wont change anything that happens to me. Woe, woe, woe is me.

*Slits her wrists, because there's nothing she can do to avoid it*

[Dotard]

I advise all men that if you don't take precautions to dress in rags and to muck up your house and car so as they don't look so valuable, it's your own fault if someone you live with takes money from your wallet at night. You should have known better.

Bullshit. No one ever said "it's your own fault".

And yes, if you do take the advice you have layed out, your risk of robbery will be lesser than the man in an armani suit driving a high end mercedes.

[Cego_Colher]

They might not get raped more, it would just be a cautions thing to know that besides bringing good attention it might, may, maybe, bring some unwanted attention too. It is just one of these useless pieces of advice. Not of course is it to say that women who are wearing burqas aren't going to get raped. I don't care if women want to wear sexy clothes or not. I think they should be able to wear whatever clothes without fear. I am also pretty sure that no one is going to record such a thing for fear that people are going to say they are trying to blame the victim.

however, women from 15ish to 22ish are more likely to get raped. That is also the time in a woman's life when she is the most fertile. Older and younger females are probably more vulnerable, but it's the fertile women are more likely to be raped, probably because men find fertile woman more attractive. Woman in that age group experience a greater psychological pain after rape then other age groups. (a Natural History of Rape by Thornhill and Palmer)

The authors mentioned a friend of theirs that had been raped. "Why if her appearance was not relevant to her chances of being raped again, was she not reluctant to dress as attractively as she had in the past?" (ibid) of course this is just how the woman felt and was not a real part of the book– just a side note. (the account of the event was that she went on a date with him, he was attempting to initiate sex throughout the date and had apologized that he had to physically restrain her.)
"84% of rapists surveyed cited sexual motivation 'solely or in part' as a cause of their acts." (Ibid)
" 'She stood there in her nightgown, and you could see right through it– you could see her nipples and breast and, you know, they were just waiting for me, and it was just too much of a temptation to pass up' ." (ibid, then directed towards-- Men who Rape by Groth)

I really don't know why I felt the need to jump in to this debate again, because everyone will just get mad at me, tell me I'm blaming the victim whatever else they'd do. I do not ever believe it is the victims fault. (the authors of the book stated this as well.) The men who do this should be punished no matter what she was wearing or how she was acting. also, all I wish all women would report sexual harassments directed towards her so that he is punished accordingly.

But I thought it was going to be trying to avoid rape in this thread again. Oh, well, I... am probably not prepared for the anger, but (waves hand unenthusiastically.) send them this way.

[Dotard]

I stated someone's true colors were revealed. Folks took that to mean I was calling him a rapist. Actually, I was calling him a misogynist.

You say that like there's something wrong with it.

[Cego_Colher]

Dotard, are you a misogynist? or are you kidding? please tell me you're kidding, right?

[Scented Nectar]

Bullshit. No one ever said "it's your own fault".

And yes, if you do take the advice you have layed out, your risk of robbery will be lesser than the man in an armani suit driving a high end mercedes.

It's used, especially by religious types, to fault/blame women all the time, even if you yourself don't do it. And as for the risk, no one has shown any increased risk yet. We already know for sure some opposing facts, such as the rarity of dragged off the street style rapes, and the fact that no stats have appeared showing any rapes increased with specific clothing styles.

Until I see some solid indicators (correlation at least), I can't seriously consider this religion-spawned concept as based on any reality. There is too much evidence against it, and none for it.

[Dotard]

I see a lot of defending of the opinion that women should mind their clothing, but still no proof that women who wear sexier clothing have a higher number of rapes happen to them.

Show me your statistics, anyone.

Well well, looky here.

Sure does seem like a lot of burka wearing muslim majority nations are at the bottom.

I postulate it has to do with the manner of dress.

---

Dotard, are you a misogynist? or are you kidding? please tell me you're kidding, right?

Depends on your definition. I define it as a mistrust of women. Nothing else.

Using my definition, yes I am a misogynist. Using any other definition, no I am not. I don't hate nor dislike women.

(I do like girls, but don't care for women, but that's a whole 'nuther thread.)

[Minimalist]

DEFINITION: Total recorded rapes.

Reporting rape in a muslim country can be dangerous to your health.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...00658.html

Two-thirds of the women in Lashkar Gah's medieval-looking jail have been convicted of illegal sexual relations, but most are simply rape victims – mirroring the situation nationwide. The system does not distinguish between those who have been attacked and those who have chosen to run off with a man.

Oddly, I guess these are the guys that American and British soldiers are dying for. The Taliban must be even worse, huh?

[tavarish]

If you really have to go there, then I have to point out that Saerule's gender is female, but not her sex. There's a difference.

Which is relevant...how?

Furthermore, if you really really want to go there, notice how women tend to be the victims and men tend to be the perpetrators.

Which means?

Would I be blaming the victim of a car accident if I told them to put on a seatbelt?

Seatbelts don't cause or prevent car accidents. Your analogy is irrelevant.

Seatbelts protect you in case of a car accident. They diffuse the situation, much like a weapon would in an attack situation. This is safeguarding - not only trying to prevent the car accident by driving properly, but being prepared when and if something does happen.

Do you understand now?

I never said rape happens predominantly with scantily clad women, nor did I say wearing revealing clothes is an open invitation for harm. I said that wearing clothing may increase attention, both good and bad, and women who wear revealing clothing should be aware of this at the very least. That's it. Be fucking aware of your surroundings when you're the center of attention. My comment is geared towards the same thing we've been talking about for nearly 40 pages now - common sense.

Why the conversation turned to victim blaming, us v them mentality, and emotionally charged straw men is something I'll never quite understand.

Yeah, no. So woman who are not wearing scantily clad clothing should not be aware?

Whoa, you got me there. That's exactly what I said.

My initial statement still stands. You guys are putting words in mouths like you're going for a high score.

All women should be aware at all times. However, women who wear revealing clothing should also be aware that they're the center of attention, and with added exposure comes added risk, as well as reward. Is that clear enough?

Where are the statistics that show a woman's clothing has a strong correlation to rape victims?

Where did I say that there is? Can you please link me to anywhere where I did say this?

Your common sense is flawed, I'm sorry you can't see it.

Being aware of your surroundings is flawed? Please explain.

For someone who pledged to stay out of this thread, you sure did come back and restate some of your arguments with no real resolution in the matter. I suppose that's a positive thing, since it shows that you're persistent, but it doesn't add anything to your assertions. Emotionally charged straw men are nonetheless straw men driven by emotion.

[Dotard]

[quote='Minimalist' pid='80675' dateline='1279338940']

DEFINITION: Total recorded rapes.

I knew someone would claim it is only because of unreported rapes.

Prove it. If they are unreported how would you know of it?

Just because someone writes an article stating convicted women are really rape victims does not make it fact. Just because someone accuses another of rape does not prove a rape actually occured.