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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 7:59 pm
It's funny that Yahweh's chosen people were a backwater group surrounded by wealthier and more advanced societies. Greece, Egypt, and Rome. He sure can pick them, can't he?
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 8:49 pm
He always comes across as fairly inept for a "god."
I don't think Odin would have ever been portrayed as that much of a fuck up.
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 8:53 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 8:54 pm by robvalue.)
To answer my own question from earlier, even if they did know something incredible, and we had no idea how they knew it, then we can conclude nothing more. Those people's explanation for how they got the knowledge is a separate claim, and isn't automatically true just because they knew some impressive things. I call this the "wow" fallacy. "Wow, that's amazing. I'm really impressed. I'll now believe anything else you say without question." I hope the problem with that attitude is obvious.
I'm not saying what they supposedly knew is even impressive; but even if it was, it's not evidence for anything. A lack of an explanation is not a free pass for people to make their own up.
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 9:00 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 9:23 pm by Cyberman.
Edit Reason: Fixed embarrassing typo.
)
(October 21, 2015 at 8:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: He always comes across as fairly inept for a "god."
I don't think Odin would have ever been portrayed as that much of a fuck up.
That, to me, is why the bible god is far less credible as a character than any of the polytheistic pantheons. When you have lots of gods, with separate personalities and responsibilities, the various injustices of life can be rationalised as being an ongoing drama between the gods. Sort of a theological EastEnders. Lump all of those personalities into one entity with responsibility over everything, you end up with a celestial psycho.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 9:02 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 9:03 pm by Jenny A.)
Shhhh. The OP didn't want god brought into it. 
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 9:13 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 9:16 pm by robvalue.)
Just for completeness, the argument that an event was caused by such and such because you (or other people you ask) can't come up with/can't imagine another explanation is a very common error in thinking. It's calling the argument from ignorance/incredulity, where you assume an answer is correct without justification, and then expect others to prove you wrong.
At best you have shown that your explanation can't be proved right or wrong, you haven't established which it actually is. And the same argument works for any explanation that can't readily be proved wrong, thus "proving" multiple contradictory explanations.
This error in thinking is amazingly common. Anyone who cares about proper arguments instead of pointless deflections would do well to understand these things.
I have a (hopefully) user friendly guide on my website here which helps you identify and understand many common errors in thinking. Please ask if anything is unclear.
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 9:13 pm
I'll send Titus Pullo to see him.
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 9:59 pm
(This post was last modified: October 21, 2015 at 10:00 pm by Blondie.)
I know how the larger majority feels which I do not have a problem with and I did not want it to sound like that my intent was to persuade or indoctrinate any of you. I know anyone can make any claim they want such as Santa Claus is real, but without evidence I know that it is not accepted by some people. I really do appreciate for the honest answers which is what I wanted from this community on this forum. Thanks for answering the questions. It is very much appreciated. I have always heard from my teachers and professors that there is no stupid question. You never find an answer if you never ask. After all, that is how we find answers and get some intelligence.
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 21, 2015 at 10:20 pm
(October 21, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Blondie Wrote: I know how the larger majority feels which I do not have a problem with and I did not want it to sound like that my intent was to persuade or indoctrinate any of you. I know anyone can make any claim they want such as Santa Claus is real, but without evidence I know that it is not accepted by some people. I really do appreciate for the honest answers which is what I wanted from this community on this forum. Thanks for answering the questions. It is very much appreciated. I have always heard from my teachers and professors that there is no stupid question. You never find an answer if you never ask. After all, that is how we find answers and get some intelligence.
Asking is the way to get answers. But a little self motivated research can be better. The Bible does talk about the circle of the horizon but also about the four corners of the earth and shaking the earth on it's pillars. It's pretty clear that by the circle of the earth they did not mean a ball.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Historical Standpoint
October 22, 2015 at 12:52 am
(October 21, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Blondie Wrote: I know how the larger majority feels which I do not have a problem with and I did not want it to sound like that my intent was to persuade or indoctrinate any of you. I know anyone can make any claim they want such as Santa Claus is real, but without evidence I know that it is not accepted by some people. I really do appreciate for the honest answers which is what I wanted from this community on this forum. Thanks for answering the questions. It is very much appreciated. I have always heard from my teachers and professors that there is no stupid question. You never find an answer if you never ask. After all, that is how we find answers and get some intelligence.
I agree  You're welcome. Good on you for taking the time to listen.
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