I've posted this on another forum as well but I thought it was interesting.
During lunch with two colleges of mine, one a Muslim, one an atheist like me, we got to talk about the results of the election and how glad we all were that Sarah Palin didn't get to become VP so all went fine. The Muslim girl said that she was so glad that black Americans now finally have a president for the first time. Then I said that there were 2 items that did sadden me though. These formerly oppressed men and women that voted Obama into office also overwhelmingly voted in favour of proposition 8, and even worse, the proposition that no people unless married were eligible to adopt in a certain state (I forgot which one).
Then she immediately went of into a rant about that being totally fair and how gays (and she used a different term) should not be able to marry and adopt. Then I replied that the second law also means no single man or woman can adopt even if he or she would have the means and love to support a child and get the child to grow up in a stable and loving environment.
Then she went on that "those people either go to work or raise children, they cant do both". So I asked "how do you know this?". She said well in most cases it would be problematic. So I asked well what about the cases where it wouldn't be a problem, since the law also excludes those people. Then she went to the "okay maybe not everyone but gays shouldn't marry" tangent.
Then I said "well what if you meet a nice Dutch guy and you want to marry, but some racist bigot in power has a law stating that interracial marriages are banned, would that be fair? Would you not protest that? How is your relationship with another person anyone's business but your own?"
Then she went down a peg and said "Well I don't care what other people do as long as they don't bother me." To which I replied, "Yes but if you had the choice like the Americans had in proposition 8 you would have voted in favour of that even though you now said you don't care".
At that point she began to realize that she had backed herself into a corner and just let the argument slide. When we went to the kitchen to put our dishes in the washer she turned around and said:
"I never realized I was that conservative before."
That had me smiling, I must admit.
During lunch with two colleges of mine, one a Muslim, one an atheist like me, we got to talk about the results of the election and how glad we all were that Sarah Palin didn't get to become VP so all went fine. The Muslim girl said that she was so glad that black Americans now finally have a president for the first time. Then I said that there were 2 items that did sadden me though. These formerly oppressed men and women that voted Obama into office also overwhelmingly voted in favour of proposition 8, and even worse, the proposition that no people unless married were eligible to adopt in a certain state (I forgot which one).
Then she immediately went of into a rant about that being totally fair and how gays (and she used a different term) should not be able to marry and adopt. Then I replied that the second law also means no single man or woman can adopt even if he or she would have the means and love to support a child and get the child to grow up in a stable and loving environment.
Then she went on that "those people either go to work or raise children, they cant do both". So I asked "how do you know this?". She said well in most cases it would be problematic. So I asked well what about the cases where it wouldn't be a problem, since the law also excludes those people. Then she went to the "okay maybe not everyone but gays shouldn't marry" tangent.
Then I said "well what if you meet a nice Dutch guy and you want to marry, but some racist bigot in power has a law stating that interracial marriages are banned, would that be fair? Would you not protest that? How is your relationship with another person anyone's business but your own?"
Then she went down a peg and said "Well I don't care what other people do as long as they don't bother me." To which I replied, "Yes but if you had the choice like the Americans had in proposition 8 you would have voted in favour of that even though you now said you don't care".
At that point she began to realize that she had backed herself into a corner and just let the argument slide. When we went to the kitchen to put our dishes in the washer she turned around and said:
"I never realized I was that conservative before."
That had me smiling, I must admit.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
