What is the point of Atheist Activism?

[Eilonnwy]

It was the Declaration which gave us our freedom to establish a government and many of the same people were involved with writing both documents. The actions of the government after the Constitution came into effect show that they believed that we were founded on a belief in God.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the war did that. The document was just a rallying cry, and more importantly, NOT the basis of our government.

But it still assumed that people would want to worship God.

Not it doesn't, it says Government shall make no law regarding religion or the practice of it. Nowhere does it suggest that every citizen believes in God. You're reading a bit too much into it, buddy.

That is exactly what I said in my post. But it doesn't contradict my statement that this country was founded on the belief that there is a God.

And yet you haven't backed it up. Best you can do is a colonial document. The constitution states in the preamble that it is a Government by the people. Nowhere does it state that it is based on theism.

If the government isn't allowed to have a national day of prayer because some of its citizens are atheists, isn't that in effect making atheism an official religion?

Ha ha, nice one.

If I hold up a piece of blank paper, is that paper an atheist paper? Atheism is not a religion, it's a response to a question. I'm not demanding atheism in our government, I'm demanding secularism. Let people be free to worship or not worship as they see fit, Government should not have any say in that.

There have been a lot of bad laws connected with marriage but that doesn't change the fact that marriage has always been a relationship between a man and a woman.

Nope. A lot of times marriage is between a man and a woman, and another woman, and another woman. Besides, marriage exists now in my State. Guess what? God hasn't struck us down. The marriage of a man and a woman is not devalued because now two of my female friends are married. It's a commitment between two people, and gays can be just as committed as straights. Your tradition argument has no fucking merit. If it can be changed before, it can be changed again.

You're basically saying that there has to be a penis and vagina for marriage to be valued. Doesn't matter how in love they are, how committed they are, how their personality meshes, what they do for each other. Nope, one has to have a penis and one has to have a vagina, that's the only thing that makes a marriage valid. Bull fucking shit.

[tavarish]

That is exactly what I said in my post. But it doesn't contradict my statement that this country was founded on the belief that there is a God.

So you take a direct refutation to your argument and still come back with the same response? Freedom to believe whatever the hell you want is important - so much in fact that the founding fathers made it one of their first points in the Constitution. They didn't put forth a freedom of religion, but mandatory belief in God. You have the freedom to believe or not believe whatever you like.

If the government isn't allowed to have a national day of prayer because some of its citizens are atheists, isn't that in effect making atheism an official religion?

No, it's recognizing that a state-led initiative is necessarily promoting a religious practice. This is unconstitutional.

There have been a lot of bad laws connected with marriage but that doesn't change the fact that marriage has always been a relationship between a man and a woman.

...and?

I'm glad you find there to be "bad laws", which also fall under the same category as your initial assertion. I can add or replace some words and still have it valid, depending on the timeframe and societal framework.

1. There have been a lot of bad laws connected with marriage but that doesn't change the fact that marriage has always been a relationship between a white man and a white woman.

2. There have been a lot of bad laws connected with marriage but that doesn't change the fact that marriage has always been a relationship between a financially fit man and a woman's parents.

3. There have been a lot of bad laws connected with marriage but that doesn't change the fact that marriage has always been a relationship between a man and a virgin woman.

A society built upon progression is just that - progressive. We change definitions and traditions, that's how things get done so we can more happily live with one another. Homosexuality didn't just pop up - it was always around. The societies, however, didn't allow for such things to be regarded seriously until recently.

In response to the OP:

Name one rational argument made from a secular standpoint that would explain why prohibition of gay marriage to be legal.

[Minimalist]

Why doesn't anyway ever just say. WHO CARES what the this nation was founded on????

Because the shitwits keep insisting on trying to shove their fucking fairy tales into every aspect of life and they must be opposed.

Never forget the wise words of Robert Ingersoll.

Orthodox Christians have the habit of claiming all great men, all men who have held important positions, men of reputation, men of wealth. As soon as the funeral is over clergymen begin to relate imaginary conversations with the deceased, and in a very little while the great man is changed to a Christian -- possibly to a saint.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll

[starbucks]

Haven't had a chance to read through all the responses but what I'm saying is that non-Christians oppose many Christian groups and their religious-related views. But these non-Christians aren't exactly atheists either. So when atheists feel compelled to challenge Christian religious-related views, why do they have to turn it into an atheist vs. Christian issue instead of opening up the circle to include non-Christians as well? Why does it have to be "atheist" vs. Christian instead of just general people who oppose Christian religious-related views? It appears that atheists are no longer standing as individuals but are trying to rally together and form an organization or group of sorts like any other religious group who shares a commonality belief. With atheists, it would be no belief in a deity that is their commonality. I would hope that the interest to join sites like this is more because of similar views and not because one believes or doesn't believe in a god.

[Eilonnwy]

Haven't had a chance to read through all the responses but what I'm saying is that non-Christians oppose many Christian groups and their religious-related views. But these non-Christians aren't exactly atheists either. So when atheists feel compelled to challenge Christian religious-related views, why do they have to turn it into an atheist vs. Christian issue instead of opening up the circle to include non-Christians as well? Why does it have to be "atheist" vs. Christian instead of just general people who oppose Christian religious-related views? It appears that atheists are no longer standing as individuals but are trying to rally together and form an organization or group of sorts like any other religious group who shares a commonality belief. With atheists, it would be no belief in a deity that is their commonality. I would hope that the interest to join sites like this is more because of similar views and not because one believes or doesn't believe in a god.

One of my favorite organizations is the Americans United for the Seperation of Church and State. It's run by Reverend Barry Lynn, a minister. I have no problem with him supporting the secularist cause. In fact, I greatly respect religious people who support secularism and support everyone's right to believe as they wish. The fact is, however, that the people who constantly try to chip at the separation of church and state are religious. That is the whole point. So while yes, many religious people can support the secular cause, it's ultimately against religious organizations trying to breach the first amendment.

Furthermore, what is so wrong with atheists organizing? I myself am a member of the Boston Atheists and we ultimately try to get people together for social and political reasons. It can be nice to hang out with people who have similar interests, who understand your lack of belief, don't slip in mentions of God while your around. It's ultimately about making friends. I have a lot of things I like to talk about with regards to religion and going to atheist meetups allows me to discuss these things so I don't pester my religious friend. And then, when issues with Church and State crop up, we as a group can band together to make a difference.

Civil Rights was a battle fought to gain equality for people of color. It was ultimately a movement against white privilege. Does that mean there were no whites standing with the blacks, supporting their cause? Are there no straight people defending the rights of gays? Of course there are, and no one would state otherwise.

[lrh9]

What is the point of opposing atheist activism?

In spite of what atheist and theist detractors have to say we have more in common than being atheist. As I see it the only point in opposing atheist activism is to divide atheists against each other and weaken our power as a group.

[Rhizomorph13]

We're a group now? I didn't get the memo, but can I get the secret decoder ring and help create the secret handshake?

[KichigaiNeko]

We're a group now? I didn't get the memo, but can I get the secret decoder ring and help create the secret handshake?

Or the 'Other' sescret physical whatsitis that MUST be performed???

Damn you Guys!!

WHERE IS MY MEMO!!???

[Rhizomorph13]

You need to come to the next Atheist pride rally, that is how you get on the mailing list.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

We're a group now? I didn't get the memo, but can I get the secret decoder ring and help create the secret handshake?

I missed it too. Did we have another election? EG like the one which elected Richard Dawkins and Chris Hitchens atheist spokesmen.


Do we have a Prez? May I be treasurer?

What about an official uniform,and a nice badge?


Perhaps we could issue mask and AK47's (may I have an Armalite?) for people who think they may be harassed by rabid theists.