Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 12:55 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
What is a real Muslim?
#31
RE: What is a real Muslim?
(November 16, 2015 at 1:16 pm)Dystopia Wrote: A real Muslim is anyone who believes Allah, as described in the Quran and Islamic teachings, is the one true god. End of story

As cherry picked by the individual would be more fitting. In the Quran as well as all the other books you can find encouragements for violence as well as kindness. It's not more or less contradictory than all the other holy books and it depends on the individual how they swing.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
Reply
#32
RE: What is a real Muslim?
One thing humans don't do which I think they should to is to stop saying "I am a(insert label here).

I am an atheist, no I am a human, "atheist" is the off position I hold, it is not my DNA.
I am a Muslim, no, you are a human, "Muslim" describes the position you take on one god claim.
I am a Christian, no and again, "Christian" is the position you take on one god claim.
I am a Buddhist, no and again, that is the position you take.

Even with where you were born.

I am a "Mexican", no, that is where you were born and what you are accustom to.
I am a "American", no, that is where you were born or migrated to.
I am "Japanese" no that is where you were born and are accustom to.

Same with politics.

I am a Democrat.....No, that is the position you take.
I am a Republican,,,,,No that is the position you take.
I am a Communist....no that is the position you take
I am an anarchist, no that is the position you take.



All those labels above you can't find an atom for. So the only real thing that makes us different by genes is our face shape, and skin tone. The rest are simply things we socialize and form groups around.

We are all human beings first and DNA proves that we all share the same common ancestors.
Reply
#33
RE: What is a real Muslim?
(November 23, 2015 at 10:16 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am an atheist, no I am a human, "atheist" is the off position I hold, it is not my DNA.
I am a Muslim, no, you are a human, "Muslim" describes the position you take on one god claim.
I am a Christian, no and again, "Christian" is the position you take on one god claim.
I am a Buddhist, no and again, that is the position you take.

I think you're being pedantic here.

All saying "I'm an atheist" actually means is that you don't believe in god. It's irrelevant whether you think it's the default position because that really doesn't matter when defining an atheist.

And @Rob, I'd say it is exactly the same.

Why is our definition of a teapot any more valid than what we think a muslim must be?

Sure, one is an actual object and the other a religion. But ultimately I can say whatever the damn hell I please about myself and you're not anyone to tell me different. Or are you?

My point is really one of "does your own description go with what everyone else's description is?". Because that's how we define what words mean, by popular opinion.

I could say I'm black for instance. Now, by most people's account of what constitutes as "being black", I'm not. But would I be given credence if I said I was one thing, even though I'm not?

I don't see why there is a distinction for religious beliefs but not things like skin colour, or teapots.

Is it because they're beliefs, and somehow that means it's different? Why? Because you choose it?

In legal terms the law would call me white British, regardless of what I say. It would also call me a human being and not a magic teapot. But religion? I can see why the law would let me call myself whatever I want. But then I'd say it speaks volumes of the pointlessness of what the law has to say.
Reply
#34
RE: What is a real Muslim?
It all depends on definitions. If there is a testable definition for what something must be in order to be a teapot, then your claim can be assessed, if you clarify that you are saying you're literally a teapot. I'm saying there is no testable criteria for a religious stance. It is saying literally nothing about you, so there's nothing to be tested. People may have criteria individually by which they accept or deny someone "really is" the religion they say, but there is no universal definition, as far as I'm aware. I don't see how there could be, except for ease of language.

If you want to identify "as a teapot", rather than claim you literally are a teapot, then that's equally meaningless and can't be argued with. There is probably no legal accommodation possible for that though, unless you say it is your religious belief. I agree the law can't really handle religious beliefs other than to report what you've said, because they have nothing to do with reality.

If someone says to me they are Muslim, that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned. They have told me nothing, they may as well have told me their name. I can't argue with it, because there's nothing to argue with. I could assume what it probably means, but I can't stop them interpreting Islam in any insane way they want. There is only "popular interpretations", there is no correct interpretation. Someone referenced recently a Muslim who thinks the religion is entirely man made so doesn't literally believe any of it. It doesn't get much more extreme than that. Is he still a Muslim?

What I'm saying is that how you describe your religious status is just like another middle name that you can change on a whim. You only need to satisfy your own criteria for what you consider that religion to be. Unlike claiming to literally be a teapot, after agreeing with me what the definition and testable criteria for a teapot are. Of course if you mean something else by "teapot", then you need to clarify.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#35
RE: What is a real Muslim?
(November 24, 2015 at 3:28 pm)Napoléon Wrote:
(November 23, 2015 at 10:16 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am an atheist, no I am a human, "atheist" is the off position I hold, it is not my DNA.
I am a Muslim, no, you are a human, "Muslim" describes the position you take on one god claim.
I am a Christian, no and again, "Christian" is the position you take on one god claim.
I am a Buddhist, no and again, that is the position you take.

I think you're being pedantic here.

All saying "I'm an atheist" actually means is that you don't believe in god. It's irrelevant whether you think it's the default position because that really doesn't matter when defining an atheist.

And @Rob, I'd say it is exactly the same.

Why is our definition of a teapot any more valid than what we think a muslim must be?

Sure, one is an actual object and the other a religion. But ultimately I can say whatever the damn hell I please about myself and you're not anyone to tell me different. Or are you?

My point is really one of "does your own description go with what everyone else's description is?". Because that's how we define what words mean, by popular opinion.

I could say I'm black for instance. Now, by most people's account of what constitutes as "being black", I'm not. But would I be given credence if I said I was one thing, even though I'm not?

I don't see why there is a distinction for religious beliefs but not things like skin colour, or teapots.

Is it because they're beliefs, and somehow that means it's different? Why? Because you choose it?

In legal terms the law would call me white British, regardless of what I say. It would also call me a human being and not a magic teapot. But religion? I can see why the law would let me call myself whatever I want. But then I'd say it speaks volumes of the pointlessness of what the law has to say.

No, I am not being pedantic. Yes for many it is used as a shortcut. But the reason humans are so divided over labels is because they DO without realizing it, treat the label as if you could draw blood and DNA and find a molecule specific to that label. "I am" allows humans to set up social orders based on labels. The only thing WE are in reality are humans.

You can certainly argue and would be right many are aware of that "I am" being a short sentence", all I am saying is far too many humans worldwide are not that self aware.
Reply
#36
RE: What is a real Muslim?
A real muslim is a muslim who is not the Bin Laden action figure available from the ISIS section of Toys 'R' Us that comes free with an Archer poster.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die." 
- Abdul Alhazred.
Reply
#37
RE: What is a real Muslim?
I think the terrorists are the real muslims. Whenever they commit an act, they have a quraan saying to back it up. It's more than I can say for the rest. Those muslims that you may like and befriend, the ones that go to bars, sleep around, listen to music(music is forbidden in islam) are definitely not the real ones, as these acts go against teachings clearly stated. If a muslim converts, he must be slain, no buts or arguments, a muslim unwilling to do that is not a real muslim. Therefore a real muslim is a murderer by today's standards.

They may condone acts now to look innocent, but remember how they were a decade ago, a cartoon would make them butcher people, they were celebrating in islamic countries on the eve of 911 2001.

I think as awful as terrorists are, at least they're honest.
Reply
#38
RE: What is a real Muslim?
I find it interesting that people who say Daesh aren't true Muslims also call them Islamist extremists! Surely if they are Islamist they are Muslim!

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Reply
#39
RE: What is a real Muslim?
I think the first step in addressing ISIS or whatever the fuck you want to call them is people realising what empty and pointless phrases "true Islam" and "true Muslim" are.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#40
RE: What is a real Muslim?
(November 25, 2015 at 9:37 am)mr_j936 Wrote: I think the terrorists are the real muslims. Whenever they commit an act, they have a quraan saying to back it up. It's more than I can say for the rest. Those muslims that you may like and befriend, the ones that go to bars, sleep around, listen to music(music is forbidden in islam) are definitely not the real ones, as these acts go against teachings clearly stated. If a muslim converts, he must be slain, no buts or arguments, a muslim unwilling to do that is not a real muslim. Therefore a real muslim is a murderer by today's standards.

They may condone acts now to look innocent, but remember how they were a decade ago, a cartoon would make them butcher people, they were celebrating in islamic countries on the eve of 911 2001.

I think as awful as terrorists are, at least they're honest.
If you see a rich muslim who has more money than he needs for his legitimate business purposes he may not really believe in Islamic doctrine.  That's because poor people will enter paradise before him and by being rich, he may not get in.  Would any real muslim jeopardize his chance of getting into a paradise?

"Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 76 :: Hadith 555

Narrated Usama:

The Prophet said, "I stood at the gate of Paradise and saw that the majority of the people who had entered it were poor people, while the rich were forbidden (to enter along with the poor, because they were waiting the reckoning of their accounts), but the people of the Fire had been ordered to be driven to the Fire. And I stood at the gate of the Fire and found that the majority of the people entering it were women.""

BTW, what good does it do for women to be muslims if they are simply going to hell for eternal torture?
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Exclamation Warning:You are in danger. Non-Muslim in danger! AVMXF 67 4966 July 23, 2023 at 3:07 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  LGBTQ Rights in Countries with a Muslim Magority Leonardo17 16 2228 January 14, 2023 at 7:33 am
Last Post: Leonardo17
  WHo is "The Pharaoh" in the Muslim Holy Book Leonardo17 14 1223 December 1, 2022 at 11:28 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  3 simple points to end the discussion with any muslim SaStrike 10 1308 September 20, 2022 at 12:14 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The only woman to win the Fields Medal was a Muslim Alexmahone 25 4665 August 28, 2022 at 2:41 pm
Last Post: Eclectic
  There is no contradiction in the Qur'an! my answer as a muslim real muslim 37 3790 July 29, 2020 at 5:30 pm
Last Post: GUBU
  Fall of Muslim science Fake Messiah 1 771 January 13, 2019 at 8:59 am
Last Post: Brian37
  Muslim men to not shake hands with females Rika82 9 1905 September 13, 2018 at 2:15 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  If a muslim grows old, do they have to dye their hair? Ruckus123 5 916 April 16, 2018 at 11:53 pm
Last Post: yragnitup
  So if Muhammad had long hair why so many muslim male having short hair? Ruckus123 3 1164 April 12, 2018 at 7:07 am
Last Post: chimp3



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)