Tourettes (water canopy thread)

[Daystar]

At best you get ice crystals forming in the mesosphere, creating a thin layer that would look like the Northern lights. When it comes to the protection against radiation, our Ozone layer is doing a much better job than water ever could.

What a water canopy the magnitude that Daystar speaks of would do is reflect a lot of the sunlight needed to warm the planet back into space, causing the entire globe to stay in a permanent ice age.

I forgot that you guys think you know everything. Indeed it would! The light and heat rays from the sun would be diffused by the vapor canopy, while preventing heat from escaping. Such a "greenhouse effect" would thus produce a milder, more uniform climate earth wide. Biologist Harold K. Blum explained: "Just as the warm glass of the greenhouse tends to raise the temperature of the interior, the water vapor tends to raise that of the earth's surface below it. This surface, or any object on it, is constantly exchanging radiation with the water vapor in the atmosphere, so the temperature of the surface is closely dependent upon the amount and temperature of this vapor."

[leo-rcc]

You seem to underestimate us Daystar. When you make the glass of your greenhouse so thick, as you are suggesting the dimming effect would be too great to create the effect you speak of.

Water is a substance which is 800 times denser than air. As soon as light enters the water, it interacts with the water molecules and suspended particles to cause loss of light, colour changes, diffusion, loss of contrast and other effects. The canopy would just dissipate too much of the heat for a normal climate to sustain.

In clear water, the attenuation is about 3.5% of the photons per meter. This means of every 1000 photons you will lose about 35 of them every meter.

[Daystar]

No knowledge of good or bad, no responsibilty on the humans to do the right thing.

Excellent rebuttal. Very convincing.

Say what? I'm sure he could manage if he tried.

You are sure of nothing. Satan deceived Eve and Adam - in charge of Earth agreed to reject God. God knows that man would fuck it up without his help, even I know that. It is obvious. If he tried to humor them and do as much as he can they would never realize that they need his guidance and protection. If he stepped in he would be contributing to man's sin as well. That is why he can't have anything to do with it. The meaning of the entire Bible demonstrates this and can be summarized in one simple sentence. The vindication of Jehovah God's name through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

Good is a reletive term, and only good in comparison with bad or less good. You won't convince anybody that they can know good without knowing bad. Unless they are completely absent of a mind and the ability to assess a situation and make choices.

When a parent tells their child to be good by not doing something he has learned what is good and bad, if the child was allowed to formulate its own opinion it would vary a great deal from society's. God told Adam that the tree represented what was good and what was bad. He told them that they didn't have to find out what was bad but Satan deceived them into thinking they were being withheld from it.

There is nothing impossible about what the Bible says.

must... quote... Kyu[/quote]

Fucking idiot? I know the feeling . . . It isn’t easy is it? Actually, I should have been more complete and specific there. There is nothing impossible about what the Bible says regarding the canopy of water.

When I was younger I was raised as a non religious non militant atheist. When presented with the choice of being a Xian I rejected that because I thought Xians were nuts, delusional, hypocrites. I made a choice based upon that. I chose not to believe in God even without any real knowledge of God. Later, when I studied the Bible in order to debunk it I realized that Xians were worse than the crazy, delusion, hypocrites they obviously were, they also fucked up the real meaning of the Bible for the sake of stupid pagan myth and Santy Clause. God and the Bible was true.

Non sequitar. You read the bible and it is true. You're missing a vital step Daystar. The evidence part?

In a court of law evidence would include testimony and eyewitness testimony. If, like you atheists often speculate, the writers of the Bible wrote it not under inspiration it would have contained the mistakes and contradictions that you perceive it to have. If God did inspire the writing it would demonstrate itself to be true upon closer examination. That was my evidence. Had science come to the conclusion that I did before me I most likely wouldn’t have ever studied the Bible because I don’t take science at all serious.

So, you want scientific evidence go out and find it because I don’t give a shit about it. If you want me to show you fucked. But you don’t want me to show you. You want me not to show you. Which means you are going to have these types of discussions over and over again hoping no one will ever show you the evidence you don’t want to see.

The question is why? Why bother? I once asked everyone here if they would change their mind if science proved the existence of God and they said they would. Why? What is the point? It answers nothing. It is no solution. It means nothing.

You don’t believe in God? So what? Who cares? Why waste your time with it?

If God did exist why would you care? So what? You would not be interested?

Either way you are wasting your time … unless … unless there is some other reason. Some weakness or guilt on your part that you feel. That is real to you.

[LukeMC]

You are sure of nothing. Satan deceived Eve and Adam - in charge of Earth agreed to reject God. God knows that man would fuck it up without his help, even I know that. It is obvious.

Why punish us if he knew it would happen?
Why punish children for the parent's mistakes?
Why bother at all? He's created himself an amusement park in which he knows the outcomes of his creation and puts his subjects through misery due to mistakes he knew they would make. If God is real, he's mean =/

If he tried to humor them and do as much as he can they would never realize that they need his guidance and protection. If he stepped in he would be contributing to man's sin as well. That is why he can't have anything to do with it.
When a parent tells their child to be good by not doing something he has learned what is good and bad, if the child was allowed to formulate its own opinion it would vary a great deal from society's. God told Adam that the tree represented what was good and what was bad. He told them that they didn't have to find out what was bad but Satan deceived them into thinking they were being withheld from it.

So they weren't being witheld, God said they could, they did, God punishes mankind forever. Am I missing something? Okay, dumb question. WHAT is it that I am missing? Because I know there must be something.

If God did inspire the writing it would demonstrate itself to be true upon closer examination. That was my evidence. Had science come to the conclusion that I did before me I most likely wouldn’t have ever studied the Bible because I don’t take science at all serious.

If it was demonstrated to be true upon close examination, people wouldn't reject it. If it really were so stunningly accurate and way ahead of its time as you seem to believe, people like myself would have to stand in awe of that fact. However...

But you don’t want me to show you. You want me not to show you.

replace the word "want" with "expect" and you get the picture.

You don’t believe in God? So what? Who cares? Why waste your time with it?

It is interesting.

If God did exist why would you care? So what? You would not be interested?

If God existed I'd change my entire life. God's existance would change everything I thought I knew. However...

Either way you are wasting your time … unless … unless there is some other reason. Some weakness or guilt on your part that you feel. That is real to you.

Yahuh.

[Tiberius]

If you believe in the existence of a water canopy, perhaps you should watch this video (I posted it earlier but I doubt anyone watched it):

[youtube]uvprBLhJx_o[/youtube]

[leo-rcc]

I did not even consider the pressure that layer would place on the earth. Thanks for posting Adrian.

[LukeMC]

If you believe in the existence of a water canopy, perhaps you should watch this video (I posted it earlier but I doubt anyone watched it):

[youtube]uvprBLhJx_o[/youtube]

I love this series. I linked Daystar to the whole playlist a while back. I wonder what his response will be to this...

[Rob]

Don't say water vapour. You've changed the goal posts. Next you'll be telling us it wasnt really water but O3 which as a molecule is similar to H2O except is has two oxygen atoms instead of hydrogen atoms and is in a lovely ring formation. Okay, the only similarity is has with water is one oxygen molecule. Never the less this gas has the quality you're looking for in that it protects the earth from harmful gasses radiation (do'h). In fact, that would make a very interesting passige in the bible: Behold thy layer of Ozone, beith made of blue stuff and protecteth you from thine wicked ultra-violet rays.

The height of mount evarist is a couple of hundred meters off 9 Kilometres tall. Since the flood covered all parts of the land that means it must have covered evarist, by multiplying the height of evarist by the total surface area of the earth we can establish the volume of water the canopy would be made of.

8.848 KM * 510,065,600 KM = 4,513,060,430,000 cubic meters

A cubic metre of water weighs one metric ton meaning that if this were to be correct the canopy would have to consist of over four and a half billion tons of water sitting atop the atmosphere.
The oceans only contain 1,300,000,000 tons of water. Assuming that prior to the flood the oceans were dry and the the water provided by the flood filled the space there's still a hell of a lot of water there going unaccounted for. Where did it go after the flood? Water doesn't magically disappear.

Now back to what the canopy was made of for a moment. A 9Km thick layer of water above the planet would instantly fall to earth and kill anything under it the moment it popped into existence. Water vapour is basically water with air in the middle so to have the same amount of water there it'd need to be much taller than nine kilometres and would probably drift off into space as soon as it was popped into existence. Hypothetically the most probable structure it would take would be an elongated hollow spheroid of ice. However, this presents its own problems including uneven melting at the equator compared to the poles and shattering when faced with the vicious winds experienced in the upper atmosphere.

Then there's the problem of having a layer of water that thick up there in the first place. If a layer that thick of water in whatever state were to exist above the planet It would block all radiation including the light.

All in all, a canopy of water over the earth is just a good way to ensure the doom of everything under it and no boat no matter how big could possibly save anything from it. Now I'm sorry the numbers don't agree with your hypothesis. its a very poetic idea that I'm sure would be spectacular to look at if it was thin enough to let light in. I'm sure such a thing would be very pretty. However, you've just got to accept the fact that this just not possible and move on.

EDIT:

You know what I find so funny about this forum?
The fact that a topic about Tourettes, or something totally different than religion always ends up in a discussion about religion...

To be fair I did ask how creationists could account for such occurrences and its disappointing to see that the original genesis story has to become so warped to account for it.

EDIT2: Corrected some spellings.

[Tiberius]

I'm still waiting for Daystar to come along, watch the video, read rjh's reply above, and say in a loud and impressive voice:

WELL...GOD WAS HOLDING IT UP AND PROTECTING US!

When faced with the overwhelming evidence against their "natural" explanation for supernatural fairy tales, the fundamentalist will always resort to "God did it" and expect that to be a valid argument.

[CoxRox]

I'm still waiting for Daystar to come along, watch the video, read rjh's reply above, and say in a loud and impressive voice:

WELL...GOD WAS HOLDING IT UP AND PROTECTING US!

When faced with the overwhelming evidence against their "natural" explanation for supernatural fairy tales, the fundamentalist will always resort to "God did it" and expect that to be a valid argument.

Good video Adrian. I don't think I can accept a world wide flood anymore. The evidence against a flood seems to be compelling to me.