Astrology?

[Exian]

Can you give us your definition of what astrology is? And can you throw in a few mechanisms by which astrology works?

[CapnAwesome]

It's totally made up bullshit with no conceivable way it could be true.

Like Mormonism.

Okay I get that you don't believe in Astrology. Now give at least one reason why you believe that.

BrianSoddingBoru4, I'm an amateur astrologer. I GUARANTEE you that I can read you better than your family can.
All I need are your birthdate, time and location.

All astrological readings are just the confirmation bias. There have been tons of studies where people were given wrong astrological readings for their birthdays and they report it being just as accurate as they people who's birthdays actually are whatever sign they are. A variation on that same study everybody was given the same reading and everyone reported that it describes them. Astrology readings always phrase even their criticisms with positive language and people are very ready to believe positive things about themselves.

Tarot cards, physic readings are all based off the exact same principle.

[IAOALGIV]

Thanks for the replies guys. CapnAwesome i'm a Capricorn buddy. Libras are awesome

Alright guys, so we have a general consensus that Astrology is pretty lame. What about it raises the most skepticism?

Well none of the claims made about it can be backed up without the use of magic. The only effect that the position of stars has on anything is tiny bits of light that is only noticeably different to the well trained eye of someone who watched the night sky and the gravitational effect of less than an orange you might have in your fridge. Based off of that physical effect giant fantastical claims are made. Truly amazing claims.

The other big side is that personality differences are obviously not separated into 12 sets of people based on man made signs and about a million other things. To believe in astrology is to believe in anything. It has the worst evidence and unlike the existence of god or gods is really easy to disprove.

Well I have to say it is pretty magical. There is certainly an air of mysticism surrounding the subject. Most, if not ALL of astrology's serious study is done esoterically.

Okay man well Jung separated the psyche into 16 personalities and he was WAY big into astrology. What do you say to that?

[CapnAwesome]

Well none of the claims made about it can be backed up without the use of magic. The only effect that the position of stars has on anything is tiny bits of light that is only noticeably different to the well trained eye of someone who watched the night sky and the gravitational effect of less than an orange you might have in your fridge. Based off of that physical effect giant fantastical claims are made. Truly amazing claims.

The other big side is that personality differences are obviously not separated into 12 sets of people based on man made signs and about a million other things. To believe in astrology is to believe in anything. It has the worst evidence and unlike the existence of god or gods is really easy to disprove.

Well I have to say it is pretty magical. There is certainly an air of mysticism surrounding the subject. Most, if not ALL of astrology's serious study is done esoterically.

Okay man well Jung separated the psyche into 16 personalities and he was WAY big into astrology. What do you say to that?

Well if you believe in magic, more power too you. You can literally believe in whatever you want with no need for evidence or justification. Every controlled study done on astrology has proven that it makes no more accurate predictions of personality than done at random and to believe in it also means that you have to never have looked at it skeptically at all. At all.

[IAOALGIV]

Can you give us your definition of what astrology is? And can you throw in a few mechanisms by which astrology works?

Astro - 'stars'
-ology - 'study of'

So, in short astrology is the study of the stars.

Mechanisms by which astrology works
subtle energies
faith
divine order

Are those sufficient?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It's totally made up bullshit with no conceivable way it could be true.

Like Mormonism.

Okay I get that you don't believe in Astrology. Now give at least one reason why you believe that.

Ok, but I don't think I can restrict it to one.

1. Astrology uses phrases like 'the Moon is in Virgo'. This is not a coherent statement: The stars that make up the constellation Virgo are thousands of light years from each other.

2. One reason given that the 'stars in their courses' affect our lives is gravity. Rubbish. The midwife who delivered me has a much greater gravitational attraction on me than any stars, planets or combinations thereof.

3. The Zodiac doesn't have twelve signs, it has thirteen. If astrologers can't be trusted to count, how can they me trusted to tell me about my life?

4. Because of precession, the signs of the Zodiac has shifted by one, but the dates haven't change.

5. Much of natal horoscopy is based on exact time of birth. Well, what is time of birth? Is it when my head cleared the birth canal? When I took my first breath, or is it what the nurse wrote down when she got round to it? This last is particularly important for people born close to midnight: suppose someone is born at 11:59:58 PM, but there's an emergency, and the TOB isn't recorded until things quiet down, say three minutes later?

6. Since Western astrology was codified (for want of a better word) a host of new astronomical objects have been discovered, yet astrologers simply ignore them.

7. Distance doesn't seem to matter much in astrology which is odd, since gravity drops off with distance. If I'm an Ares, why does Mars have as much influence on me when it is in conjunction with Earth as it does when in opposition?

8. Since distances don't matter, why aren't quasars included when ponying up a horoscope?

9. If astrology is accurate, why do different astrologers cast different horoscopes for the same person?

10. Why don't astrologers use time of conception rather than time of birth? I mean, the planets and stars are still there, influencing the life of the foetus, aren't they?

11. If astrology is accurate, why aren't horoscopes accurate?

Boru

[Cyberman]

Now please define "subtle energies", "faith" and "divine order", with particular emphasis on how we can possibly detect any of them as effects.

[IAOALGIV]

Okay I get that you don't believe in Astrology. Now give at least one reason why you believe that.

BrianSoddingBoru4, I'm an amateur astrologer. I GUARANTEE you that I can read you better than your family can.
All I need are your birthdate, time and location.

All astrological readings are just the confirmation bias. There have been tons of studies where people were given wrong astrological readings for their birthdays and they report it being just as accurate as they people who's birthdays actually are whatever sign they are. A variation on that same study everybody was given the same reading and everyone reported that it describes them. Astrology readings always phrase even their criticisms with positive language and people are very ready to believe positive things about themselves.

Tarot cards, physic readings are all based off the exact same principle.

The magic three:
Time
Date
Location

It's not Astrology's fault that people are open to suggestion.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

BrianSoddingBoru4, I'm an amateur astrologer. I GUARANTEE you that I can read you better than your family can.
All I need are your birthdate, time and location.

Ok. I was born 24 March 1970 at 2:22 PM in Belfast Northern Ireland (Royal Victoria Hospital, if that helps you at all). Tell me three things about myself. And no general bullshit, please. If you can't be eerily specific, then you can't claim to 'read' me better than my family can.

Boru

[IAOALGIV]

Okay I get that you don't believe in Astrology. Now give at least one reason why you believe that.

Ok, but I don't think I can restrict it to one.

1.  Astrology uses phrases like 'the Moon is in Virgo'.  This is not a coherent statement:  The stars that make up the constellation Virgo are thousands of light years from each other.

2.  One reason given that the 'stars in their courses' affect our lives is gravity.  Rubbish.  The midwife who delivered me has a much greater gravitational attraction on me than any stars, planets or combinations thereof.

3.  The Zodiac doesn't have twelve signs, it has thirteen.  If astrologers can't be trusted to count, how can they me trusted to tell me about my life?

4.  Because of precession, the signs of the Zodiac has shifted by one, but the dates haven't change.

5.  Much of natal horoscopy is based on exact time of birth.  Well, what is time of birth?  Is it when my head cleared the birth canal?  When I took my first breath, or is it what the nurse wrote down when she got round to it?  This last is particularly important for people born close to midnight:  suppose someone is born at 11:59:58 PM, but there's an emergency, and the TOB isn't recorded until things quiet down, say three minutes later?

6.  Since Western astrology was codified (for want of a better word) a host of new astronomical objects have been discovered, yet astrologers simply ignore them.

7.  Distance doesn't seem to matter much in astrology which is odd, since gravity drops off with distance.  If I'm an Ares, why does Mars have as much influence on me when it is in conjunction with Earth as it does when in opposition?

8.  Since distances don't matter, why aren't quasars included when ponying up a horoscope?

9.  If astrology is accurate, why do different astrologers cast different horoscopes for the same person?

10.  Why don't astrologers use time of conception rather than time of birth?  I mean, the planets and stars are still there, influencing the life of the foetus, aren't they?

11.  If astrology is accurate, why aren't horoscopes accurate?

Boru

Alright man give me a few minutes. Do you mind if I do the evaluation in this thread?