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When Atheists Can't Think Episode 1: No Evidence for God?
RE: When Atheists Can't Think Episode 1: No Evidence for God?
Delicate Wrote:
paulpablo Wrote:1) I prefer the definition which is correct and most up to date.   I won't agree with this unless some historical reference given that shows the definition of atheism has changed from including a lack of belief in gods to not including a lack of belief in gods.

2) Let me just try and understand this sentence.   Incompetent = Not having or showing the necessary skills to do something successful.
Atheism = disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

If you can explain to me what incompetent atheism is then I'd be grateful and I might agree with you on this point.

3) The first time I heard about epistemology is in this thread, I don't consider myself well informed about it enough to agree with you on this either.

If this is anything to do with your informed opinion based on the fact you have knowledge of epistemology then I already replied to this before by telling you that atheism is not necessarily a belief, it's a lack of a belief, disbelief and can also be a belief that there is no god.

The only circumstances in which these three things would be correct is where atheists believe there is no god and claim to know there is no god and for theists who claim there is a god and they know there is a god.

We're talking about two sets of things here.

On the first three, given that the redefinition arose on the internet, I don't see how there can be a historical reference. The evidence for (1) would be the established works on atheism and agnosticism.

The origin of agnosticism is in the work of TH Huxley. In his article titled Agnosticism, he explicitly positions agnosticism as contrary to atheism. Atheism, he points out, is a form of "gnosis".

Likewise, I point to the SEP article on Atheism, written by none other than eminent philosopher JJC Smart. This article rules out the view that atheism is merely a lack of belief.

The Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry, written by none other than William Rowe (the legend that brought us the contemporary version of the problem of evil) agrees with this position.

"Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief."

But that's not all, many laypersons detest this revision. Here's one example: https://philosophersgroan.wordpress.com/...we-can-do/

One of the comments in that post references Anthony Flew, that great legend, and his failed attempt to make atheism a default position.

Strangely enough, there are also comments in the post referencing internet atheism.
The 'redefinition' has been around since at least the 1800s. The definition you like because it puts atheists in the corner that you want them in is precisely the result of atheist writers having no input into how the powerful theist majority wanted to define them.

Interestingly, the term 'atheist' was coined before 'theist', making the word 'theist', etymologically speaking, literally, 'someone who does not not have a god'. The French word atheiste dates from the 1570s and etymologically, literally means 'a person without a god'.

But atheists have defined themselves as people not holding a belief in any god since before automobiles were invented.

Charles Bradlaugh wrote in his book, The Freethinker's Textbook, : Atheism is without God. It does not assert no God. The atheist does not say that there is no God, but he says 'I know not what you mean by God. I am without the idea of God. The word God to me is a sound conveying no clear or distinct affirmation. I do not deny God, because I cannot deny that of which I have no conception, and the conception of which by its affirmer is so imperfect that he is unable to define it for me. This was in 1876,

In 1877, Annie Besant, before she became a Theosophist, wrote: The position of the atheist is a clear and reasonable one. I know nothing about God and therefore I do not believe in Him or it. What you tell me about your God is self-contradictory and is therefore incredible. I do not deny 'God,' which is an unknown tongue to me. I do deny your God, who is an impossibility. I am without God.

Whoever claims that the inclusive definition of atheist as anyone who doesn't believe in any God or gods is a product of the internet is, perhaps ironically, willfully ignorant given the ease of finding out the actual historical provenance of the idea on the internet.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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