Episode VII (spoilers)

[Anomalocaris]

.... i don't know about that...

I will say it is up there with Empire strikes back.

That movie gutted original movie goers, and left you standing there with a 3 year cliff hanger.. Keep in mind that cliffhangers were NOT done back then! everything was tied up in one or two episodes. movies even trilogies did not leave you just hanging. Not to mention their was Always a clean liine between good and bad guys.. Now the main good guy's Dad was the main Bad guy! that was a big deal in of itself because it was strongly believed that the apple never fell far from the tree.

Could you imagine what would happen if you watched rocky 2 and did not find out who won the fight to the end of rocky 3 years later? or if you never witnessed all of these plot devises before and bam get hit with two or three mind benders all at once with no resolution for 3 years?

This movie maybe what empire was to all you ... young punky brewsters but to the one who has towed the line from the start it is just apart of the reason we love this saga so much

Perhaps. I didn't exactly grow up on the OT, my childhood was mostly dominated by the prequels (which I now recognise as irredeemable shite from beginning to end). I always hear 'ah it'll never be as good as the originals'. I don't subscribe to that mindset in the slightest, personally. I enjoyed TFA more than any of the others, so it certainly made me happy

Since new hope and empire were the only two movie in the entire franchise that was any good at all, I have no problem calling this movie a strong runner up in the competition to be a distant third with Jedi.

And the main thing that prevents it from sinking further is Daisy Ridley is a pretty good actress and the way the Rey character was set up promised considerable depth had considerable potential before Mary Sueness took over.

[thesummerqueen]

This is why I didn't engage you before now. Literally nothing can be said to change your mind - you hate JJ, and you are taking exception to things no one would take exception to if it were done by a man.

[Anomalocaris]

Does it help if I tell you despite the flaws of character development, Rey is by far the strongest character in the whole movie? In fact, were it not for the nastoagia, she would be the only worthwhile character in the whole movie?

Actually, if the Rey character was a man doing exactly the same things, the Marty Stu would be just as annoying.   I found Luke annoying in the new hope and he still needed obiwan to look over his shoulder to do his Marty Stu things.  But the movie around him was fresh.

I don't hate this movie because I hate JJ Abrams.  I hate JJ Abrams partly because of this movie.

[Drich]

But didn't Ani kill the Emporer? Isn't that what attempted to bring balance to the force? In any case, apparently they both failed.

Luke is/was (at the end of Jedi) the embodiment of balance as per the resaons explained. Annie when he took out Sidious left the force light side heavy (luke and the Jedi he would train)

[Aroura]

But didn't Ani kill the Emporer? Isn't that what attempted to bring balance to the force? In any case, apparently they both failed.

Luke is/was (at the end of Jedi) the embodiment of balance as per the resaons explained. Annie when he took out Sidious left the force light side heavy (luke and the Jedi he would train)

I just saw the movie, and before I chime in on it, I wanted to say that I like this theory!  I have always wondered who/if/when the prophecy has been, will be, or was fulfilled.  This makes sense.  Ani starts it by bringing more balance in numbers, and Luke finishes it by showing that a force sensitive person can experience the full range of human emotions without going full on dark side.  I love it, this makes a lot of sense.  And the Skywalkers are basically charged with maintaining that balance, too.  Their offspring go dark, light and neutral.

Now to the movie.  I loved it!  I kept myself spoiler free, and went in only really knowing it would be action packed.  To those upset about details or "plot hole", it's freaking STar Wars.  It already has a ton of inconsitancies and plot holes.  A few minor new ones are par for the course, and don't detract from this movie at all.

It had a lot of similarities to IV...on purpose, clearly.  It is like the wheel of time, things are coming full circle.  It is meant to echo and parallel what happened in the past....and what will surely happen in the future.  I love the ZENnes of it.  I thought it was handled very well.  The blend of old and new was excellent, much less heavy handed than Star Trek.  It felt very organic to me. The tech was all great, felt very OT, but with a little update.

And I just loved Rey!  I was a little skeptical about this new actress, but her performance was fabulous.  Possibly my fav scene in the movie is her using the Jedi mind trick on the storm trooper.  
When Kylo was mind raping her, she resisted.  She pushed him away so hard, she pushed into HIS mind instead!  (echos of Harry Potter and Snape Occulamancy)
Once she did that, a little door had opened to her.  You can see her face when she realizes she can hear the Storm Troopers thoughts.  I love her failed attempts to mind control him, she is afraid and uncertain.  But she gathers her courage and composure, sheds her doubts for just a moment, and succeeds in using it.  I had chills.

I am upset Han is dead, but I understand the purpose in the plot, and I think it will become even more important in future movies. 

The new droid was cute as hell without being overly childish.  The guy playing Finn is great, too.  His humor was spot on.

The pacing was good, I never felt too rushed, nor did I find myself at any point wishing they would hurry up and move on with the story.  The end was fantastic!  Climas, followed by a short segway where I'm thinking wth, and then...Luke!  And no words spoken, jsut the gesture, and his face torn by emotion.  Fantastic ending.  
No hamfisted emotional punches, no awkward romance (I thought Finns crush on Rey to be cute, he is such a child in so many ways emotionally, raised as a storm trooper as he was), her reticence yet desperation for companionship.

Wonderful characters, both old and new, a great re-imagining of an old plot, just enough nostalgia for us old geezers, and lots of new and wonderful characters for old and new alike.  Also, MAZ, I LOVE HER!  A force sensitive alien with no training.  I know the bar was destroyed, but I hope she lived and we get to see her again in future movies.  She has some interesting stories to tell, I think.

I have about a hundred other thoughts, but looks like this discussion is quieting down.  I wish I'd been able to see it on opening weekend, but I'm glad I got to see it in the theater at all.  We rarely go to movie in the theater, like MAYBE one per year, and I'm just so glad I saw this on the big screen.  I am going to call my little bro and see if I can take him this weekend!  I totally want to see it again.  There was a lot packed in there.  Rey's ATAT home had toms of details (I noticed the x-wing pilot doll so much it distracted me for a good 5 seconds wondering what the hell that could mean? lol), and her vision.  Kylo's dealings with Snoke and his final encounter with Han. Also, does he indeed know who Rey is?  I agree, it appears she was a Padawan during the slaughter.  Luke's daughter?  Just a random survivor of the slaughter? I don't know, but although I know it will be a long time waiting for answers I will enjoy reading and thinking about fan theories in the meantime. 

This movie far surpasses all of the crappy prequels, and is nestled comfortably in amongst the OT, for me.  

To all the haters, why still in this thread?  Hate it so much you can't stop talking about it?  lol.

(Only real disappointment for me was not seeing Gwendolyn Christie's face. I wanted her to take off that helmet and sneer at someone.  But her stature and voice alone were pretty amazing)

[Whateverist]

(Only real disappointment for me was not seeing Gwendolyn Christie's face. I wanted her to take off that helmet and sneer at someone.  But her stature and voice alone were pretty amazing)

Who was Gwendolyn Christie? Is that a character name or actress?

[Aroura]

(Only real disappointment for me was not seeing Gwendolyn Christie's face. I wanted her to take off that helmet and sneer at someone.  But her stature and voice alone were pretty amazing)

Who was Gwendolyn Christie?  Is that a character name or actress?

That is the actress.  She played Captain Phasma, the tall stormtrooper in the silver armor.  The one they force to bring the shields down.

She plays Brianne of Tarth in Game of Thrones, and she is just one bad ass woman, and an excellent actress.  I hope she will get more screen time in the future SW's movies!

[TheRealJoeFish]

Yeah srsly. Like the people who are like "blah SJWarriors suck" are like "no woman could be a storm trooper captain" but seriously have you seen Gwendolyn Christy? Like she is SO fucking badass even Jaime fucking Lannister wants to do her even tho he's only got the hots for his sister.

[Anomalocaris]

Her role is pitiful. She had like 3 lines, never showed her face, and you would think a storm troop captain would have more character for the actress to latch onto, like showing more spine than taking down the shield for the entire installation on mere threat to her helmeted head.   It's not like her life wouldn't be in danger once the shield is down.

Also why the fuck would a mere storm troop captain have access to the shield controls anyway?

Pitifully sloppy as well as juvenile story telling, just like the Mary Sue Rey, the annoying Poe, and the socially well adjusted Fin.

[Aractus]

He had a struggle? I thought the whole thing was a poorly done act by Kylo to lure his dad to his hand. That shouldn't have fooled anyone, especially someone somewhat savvy like Han.

No, saw it again last night. Kylo was illuminated by the fading light of the star, the planet destroyer was sucking dry, and while illuminated he was tearing up and honestly struggling/blubbering on about not doing what he knew he had to do (kill han per snoke's orders), he offered han the light saber with both hands open. han went to grab it with one hand, and just then the light started to fade as the sun was being depleted. which cause kylo to pause in handing the light saber over. then they stood staring at each other, ben with both hands and han with the one hand on the saber. when it when completely dark han started to pull, and so did ben it went back and forth for a second, the ben snatched it away and ran his old man through. chewie screamed and blasted ben with the bow caster. the same weapon that han used to blow storm troopers apart with.

Why would you see the same movie twice at the cinema? What's wrong with you?

Ah, finally, someone who tells it like it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hQVlRgFlU

"They (Disney) looked at the stories and said 'we want to make something for the fans'. So I said 'all I wanted to do was tell a story about what happened (...)' (...) it's a family soap-opera, ultimately. People don't realise it's actually a soap-opera. And it's all about family problems - it's not about spaceships."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEIrQUXm_hY

"Star Wars is the moment the industry changed."

Lucas replies: "well it changed for the good, and for the bad (...) you can either use it for good or you can use it for evil. And what happens when there's something new, people have a tendency to over-do it. They abuse it. There were two things that got abused with Star Wars. And still being abused. 1. when SW came out everybody said 'oh it's a silly movie it's just a bunch of space battles and stuff; it's not real, there's nothing behind it' (...) And so the spaceships and that part of the science-fantasy got terribly abused and of course everybody went out and made spaceship movies and they were all horrible and they all lost tons of money. (...) And the other part was the technology - which is 'oh we'll just use this new technology it's great' (...) and people just abused it all over the place. (...) The point is the other thing that got abused (naturally in a capitalist society, especially from an American point of view) is the studios and everyone said 'oh wow we could make a lot of money this is a license to kill!' (...) You've got to remember, Star Wars came from nowhere, American Grafitti came from no where, there was nothing like it. Now if you do anything that's not a sequel or not a TV series, or doesn't look like one, they won't do it (...) and it really shows an enormous lack of imagination and a fear of creativity on the part of an industry."


GL himself makes a whole lot of great comments here. The only thing he doesn't explain is why he sold Lucasfilm to Disney, who are well known for churching out bland poorly written, unoriginal money-making sequels instead of simply floating the company and leaving it with a hand picked CEO for the future.

As I mentioned earlier, every one of the five Star Wars sequels/prequels expanded the universe and brought its own story.

The trailer promised a more intimate and serious movie more in the tone of the original trilogy, but what was delivered was an action movie first and foremost with little regard to intimacy, story integrity, or the creativity and imagination of the original trilogy. What we got was bland and predictable.