Proselytizing

[downbeatplumb]

HOWEVER....

Religious morons have committed the most heinous atrocities believing they were doing so to "help". Back in the Middle Ages "heretics" were burned at the stake because the dipshits in charge believed that death by fire gave the condemned a chance of getting into "heaven". The belief was that "God" might show mercy to this person because they died in fire. Therefore, "God" may spare them the fire of "Hell". You see... they were burning people to death out of KINDNESS!
[/quote]

And the inquisition could torture people safe in the knowledge that they were only damaging the earthly body to free the imortal soul.

Arseholes.

[rjh4 is back]

Considering some of the responses, I think that maybe I was unclear in my question (but maybe not).

When I asked "So would it make a difference to you if the person acted more like the person Penn was talking about?" I was not asking whether or not it would affect your atheist position I was asking if it made a difference in how you feel about a Christian proselytizing.

@ Chasm

I do understand what you are saying about listening...and I agree. In fact, I think if a Christian is trying to proselytize someone and the person says they do not want to hear anything else about Christianity, I think the person should respect that and not talk about it any more.

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HOWEVER....

Religious morons have committed the most heinous atrocities believing they were doing so to "help". Back in the Middle Ages "heretics" were burned at the stake because the dipshits in charge believed that death by fire gave the condemned a chance of getting into "heaven". The belief was that "God" might show mercy to this person because they died in fire. Therefore, "God" may spare them the fire of "Hell". You see... they were burning people to death out of KINDNESS!

While true, I'm not sure what this has to do with my question about proselytizing today and, in particular, the kind of proselytizing that Penn was referencing. I am only refering to conversations, not trying to force someone to believe (which I think is impossible anyway).

[downbeatplumb]

[quote='rjh4' pid='77394' dateline='1277924240']
Considering some of the responses, I think that maybe I was unclear in my question (but maybe not).

When I asked "So would it make a difference to you if the person acted more like the person Penn was talking about?" I was not asking whether or not it would affect your atheist position I was asking if it made a difference in how you feel about a Christian proselytizing.

Not really.

It may alter how i reacted.

But there is no situation were I would welcome it.

[chasm]

@ Chasm

I do understand what you are saying about listening...and I agree. In fact, I think if a Christian is trying to proselytize someone and the person says they do not want to hear anything else about Christianity, I think the person should respect that and not talk about it any more.

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I agree.

[Eilonnwy]

I get what Penn Jillette is saying and understand where he is coming from.

However, it's not as simple as that. His comparison to a truck is not feasible. If you see a truck coming, that's a tangible assertion. Faith is not. I don't think a person who truly believes and really does want to save me through God is a bad person. But how many times do you want someone telling you a truck is going to hit you when there's no evidence a truck is there.

Besides, I've been accosted by proselytizers that have no interest in saving my soul and just want to let me know I'm going to hell. There's also a point where you've heard it all before and you get sick of it?

Christians have a right to proselytize and I have a right to tell them to leave me alone. I also have the right to ban their ass if they come here to do it.

[rjh4 is back]

However, it's not as simple as that. His comparison to a truck is not feasible. If you see a truck coming, that's a tangible assertion. Faith is not. I don't think a person who truly believes and really does want to save me through God is a bad person. But how many times do you want someone telling you a truck is going to hit you when there's no evidence a truck is there.

Thanks for responding, Ely.

I agree with you that the truck analogy is not feasible. If a Christian followed that analogy to its logical conclusion, then they would be a constant annoyance trying to force others into Christianity, which I do not think is the Christian thing to do.

Besides, I've been accosted by proselytizers that have no interest in saving my soul and just want to let me know I'm going to hell.

I don't doubt it. That is sad, though.

There's also a point where you've heard it all before and you get sick of it.

I certainly understand. That is why if someone tells me they do not want to talk about such issues, I try to respect that.

Christians have a right to proselytize and I have a right to tell them to leave me alone.

I agree.

I also have the right to ban there ass if they come here to do it.

I hear you loud and clear.

[Paul the Human]

I feel the same way. I do not like being preached at, but it is primarily due to the fact that I've heard it all before and don't believe a word of it. It just makes me feel like "Shut the fuck up and leave me alone!"

I understand that, sometimes, they have good intentions (save me from hell and all that), but once I make it clear that I am not interested in hearing about it... they should be respectful enough to... well... shut the fuck up and leave me alone. I try to remain polite in my request that they stop preaching at me... right up until they dismiss that request. Even if they think it is for my own good, they are in the wrong for dismissing my desire to be left alone.

(EDIT: It's worth adding that I feel this goes both ways. I would never force a theist to listen to me denounce their religion if they asked me not to. Then again... I do not go out prowling for theists to do that to, either.)

[tavarish]

Personally, I troll religious neighborhoods and knock door to door to tell people that shit happens and it's game over when you die.

On a more serious note, while I do agree with much of what Penn has said in his shows, this is something I can't really get behind.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm sure the man he met was nice and kind-hearted, and I don't doubt that most Christians are generally good people, but when you preach things that no one demonstrably and definitively knows as truth, and then force it onto people (whole populations in some cases) for the sole purpose of gaining converts, it becomes a venue for a lot of shady shit to occur.

If I said that the only way for you to reach eternal happiness would be to burn your house down, and I genuinely believed it and cared about your potential well-being, would that be a moral act if I told as many people to burn their houses as possible?

Would it be a kind act to tell others about my beliefs and assume them as truths to force others into my ideology? How about giving them the fear of hell or prohibiting certain actions because my religious views conflict with their lifestyle choices?

I've spoken to a few door to door Jehovah's Witnesses - not in an argumentative tone, but more of a questioning tone. They gave me a copy of whatever book they had, and were on their way, and I was convinced that they believed what they were preaching. It didn't have an effect on me, but I would have rather done without it. I'm absolutely fine with religion as long as it doesn't intrude on how I'm living my life.

[Godscreated]

rjh4 Kudos for your post. To all who have answered it thanks for your honesty. I know there are a few christians and maybe more than a few that do not act as a christian should when they proselytze and it is sad and down right disrespectful. I know that all the atheist on this site do not want us to proselytize to you and I try to keep that in mind when I argue a point with you. After this post runs its course I will start one I've been thinking about this post is great for leading into it again thanks rjh4.

[Caecilian]

Tbh I've had very few experiences of being proselytized. My impression is that christians tend to target people who are 'vulnerable' to conversion. My RL personality is very similar to me on-line- I'm open about my atheism, and assertive with it- so I don't come across as being a good candidate.

In one job I had a few years back, the majority of the staff were fundie christian evangelical yecs. They repeatedly attempted to convert the atheist/ agnostic staff- except for myself. It was sorta disappointing tbh- it seemed at the time that they just didn't have the nerve to try anything with an atheist who could argue their case.

As it happened, one of the agnostic staff did switch to christianity, but I was able to de-convert her.