Women's clothes?

[Mystic]

In my opinion, it has nothing to do with confidence or lack of it. It has everything to do with other virtuous qualities that people want to do away with.

May the balance/order/light/reason/purity prevail over the darkness/ignorance/uncleanness/foolishness/chaos/corruption in all societies till it becomes dominant and victorious.

Are you sure you're up for this MK?  We're discussing how a woman's curvaceous body looks under yoga pants.  Or is your being up the reason you're here?  (Pro tip: no unsolicited dick pictures.)

I live in the west. I've been to beaches. I don't think evil of women who dress that way, but I do think more of women who dress more modestly. I don't judge woman to be bad character or anything for how they dress, but there are virtues, there is light, there is unseen beauty and glory to human, that if people want to walk the higher path, have to adopt certain way to dress.

[Athene]

In my opinion, it has nothing to do with confidence or lack of it. It has everything to do with other virtuous qualities that people want to do away with.

As I stated a few pages back, I wear what I'm comfortable in and what the situation demands, not to attract the attention of men.

Now ask yourself WHY the various religions demand 'modesty' of women while not applting the same rule to men?  Is it, perhaps, that those religions were created and run by "men"?

Whassamatter with you, you crazy broad? Don't you want your virtue protected, honey?

[Mystic]

As I stated a few pages back, I wear what I'm comfortable in and what the situation demands, not to attract the attention of men.

Now ask yourself WHY the various religions demand 'modesty' of women while not applting the same rule to men?  Is it, perhaps, that those religions were created and run by "men"?

Whassamatter with you, you crazy broad? Don't you want your virtue protected, honey?

Atheist: no such thing as objective virtue, it's all relative to what we decide...yet when other societies believe differently then them, mock it. Rich. Real Rich.

[Rhondazvous]

I lack confidence?

o_O

Touché

I looked up the word confidence in Wikipedia and there was your picture.

[Rhondazvous]

Whassamatter with you, you crazy broad? Don't you want your virtue protected, honey?

Atheist: no such thing as objective virtue, it's all relative to what we decide...yet when other societies believe differently then them, mock it. Rich. Real Rich.

Was this guy included in the 2015 AF Awards as a joke?

Religion offers no more objectivity than atheism, since all the gods say something different. Christianity says women can wear what they want. Islam says they have to cover everything but their eyes. Some religions say women have to cover their heads when they pray. Your nebulous undefined god may have something else to say. What's objective about that?

[*Deidre*]

Ah, I see. Your rebuttal is very on point. And I agree.

My thought is that I'm rather tired of guys telling women how to dress and so what if a woman dresses sexy in order to distract men. Men are dolts who are automatically distracted by women's attire now? lol Men have minds of their own...and not all men will walk into walls at the first sight of a woman in yoga pants. 

This sounds like a convo I'd see over on a christian forum, not here.   lol Religious men often blame women for why they are 'lusting' after them and 'sinning.'

I understand the premise, but it is interesting to see this type of mindset outside of a religious context.

Did you see the OP?  Posted by the user "True Christian" (albeit in a rather shit-and-run manner).

He opined that too many young women take their fashion cues from Miley Cyrus,
and not enough young women take example from the Virgin Mary.

In response, I posted pics of Katy Perry, Cher, and...oh yeah....MADONNA taking their cues from the Holy Virgin.



I see women dressed in outfits all the time that I do not consider particularly tasteful or classy,
but the point is respect for personal freedom
and also, as you are pointing out:  personal accountability:

He needs to take ownership of what is HIS problem,
and not expect her to make it HER problem.

A woman shouldn't have to modify her dress, because it distracts men.

No one should have to.

In fact, for me, it raises the issue of Limerence

I consider Limerence is basically worse than a crush;

...but not quite as serious as Stalking, or full-blown Obsession,
insofar as you respect the person's privacy and space.

Limerence is when you essentially develop a "supercrush" that lasts for years

Thoughts of that person invade your mind,
against your will, at all times of day,
invade your dreams,
for years and years,
and generally makes you miserable,
because you feel like you are "meant" to be together...

...but you are too responsible, sane, and mature, to stalk them or harass them,
and you maintain self-control and whatever distance it is humanly-possible to maintain.

It largely hangs on not knowing whether the object of your desire (or "Limerent Object" or LO)
would return your affections, or not...

...but even if you know they would not return your affections,
or if you know they are happily married, for example.
you could still be Limerent toward them for many years.

I've been Limerent in the past,
and it's a type of torture to not be able to stop thinking of a person,
and feel like you should be together,

but have to accept it and move on,
(especially if you're obliged to SEE or talk to that person, from time to time,
and your heart nearly stops every time you clap eyes on them).

Now:  I compare that to the invasive level of "distraction"
(due to sexual attraction) that Heat was talking about.

It is so persistent, so frequent, and intense enough, that it can be a little aggravating:

You're doing your best to behave,
but you feel like you're being taunted, at times,
and that your efforts at self-control are not appreciated.

Now,

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is like putting a feast before a starving man,
and asking him to maintain his self-control;

but I would say it is like an intense irritation that you cannot address;
and must simply endure;

like having poison ivy exposure and not being able to scratch it;
Or trying to study for a Calculus exam when you haven't slept for a couple of days,
or finding someone extremely obnoxious or annoying,
yet having to resist the urge to punch them in the face.

My point:

Women have stuff they have have to resist, too,
and ALWAYS resist it,
even if it makes them a little miserable.

I don't have the right to make my Limerent Object (my crush) uncomfortable,
by letting him know the intensity of my feelings for him,
just because I am inconvenienced...

...it is not his problem.

I must endure it,
OR, I must be the one to move away from HIM,
I cannot expect HIM to move away from ME.

Likewise,

men should not expect women to change their plans, or clothes,
or career, or life goals, or body, or anything else,
to accommodate what is easier for him...

...and vice-versa, too, of course.

I like your posts. 
Yes, agree.

There are times when of course, dressing modestly makes sense...at work...and now that I'm engaged, my attire is sexy with him in mind only. I was never one to flaunt my body per se, but yoga pants, tight skirts with the right heels, I mean...if it looks good and sexy, but not cheap...then, I like it. I tend to wear what I like, and feel good in, and comfortable.

Truthfully, if I could wear pj's all day, with my hair in a messy bun...and reading glasses I would. My fiance also finds this sexy, but that's love talking. 

[MTL]

Are you sure you're up for this MK?  We're discussing how a woman's curvaceous body looks under yoga pants.  Or is your being up the reason you're here?  (Pro tip: no unsolicited dick pictures.)

I live in the west. I've been to beaches. I don't think evil of women who dress that way, but I do think more of women who dress more modestly. I don't judge woman to be bad character or anything for how they dress, but there are virtues, there is light, there is unseen beauty and glory to human, that if people want to walk the higher path, have to adopt certain way to dress.

(bold, mine)

Oh, bullshit.

What doesn't sit well with me is the less-than-nuanced line you draw between "Modest" or "Immodest".

I don't dress sexy, most of the time.

that doesn't mean that I NEVER dress sexy at all.

I am not dressing modestly, during the day, for the sake of modesty, but for practicality.

But, like I said, I will go to a fetish night, and dress very sexy, indeed.

So I take issue with this hamfisted, clumsy, black-and-white method of labeling women
as being either "modest" and "immodest"

because it doesn't allow that THE SAME WOMAN  might dress demurely, at one time, for one reason,

and then dress in a confident, sexy way, at a different time, for a different reason...

(and NEITHER of those might be for the sake of a man)

and just because she is dressed modestly, that does NOT necessarily mean that she is virtuous,

and just because she is dressed sexy, that does NOT necessarily mean that she is NOT virtuous.

I've known uptight, straightlaced librarian types who would put poison in your tea,

and I've known some very liberated people in the fetish scene and LGBT community
who would jump in front of a train to save a stranger.

Virtue has nothing to do with dress.  Nothing.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I've often found quite a bit of virtue in naked women...

Boru

[The Valkyrie]

I've often found quite a bit of virtue in naked women...

Boru

Naming little Boru "virtue" doesn't count.

:p

[Mermaid]

Are you sure you're up for this MK?  We're discussing how a woman's curvaceous body looks under yoga pants.  Or is your being up the reason you're here?  (Pro tip: no unsolicited dick pictures.)

I live in the west. I've been to beaches. I don't think evil of women who dress that way, but I do think more of women who dress more modestly. I don't judge woman to be bad character or anything for how they dress, but there are virtues, there is light, there is unseen beauty and glory to human, that if people want to walk the higher path, have to adopt certain way to dress.

I find it a virtue to mind your own goddamned business about what other people do.