The Immorality of God - Slavery in the Old Testament

[brewer]

The delusion is strong with this one. (insert James Earl Jones voice)

[Pat Mustard]

One facepalm is not enough.



Two may not be enough. We shall see.

Right I was. Strong in this thread the idiocy is. To fight the unthought of Athrock, deep in the force I must delve. Many facepalms must I use

[drfuzzy]

[Mudhammam]

Very stupid athrock... you believe an all-pwerful being can coexist with free will,

I think you mean omniscience (all-knowing).

[Pat Mustard]

Very stupid athrock... you believe an all-pwerful being can coexist with free will,

I think you mean omniscience (all-knowing).

Neither can actually, having others with free will will limit both your knowledge and power. And of course you've also got the incompatibility of omniscience and omnipotence to contend with. No matter how athrock talks about his invisible friend, he's fucked.

[robvalue]

If god did ever show up, he'd instantly vaporize into paradox powder just by finally being observed.

[Mudhammam]

Neither can actually, having others with free will will limit both your knowledge and power. And of course you've also got the incompatibility of omniscience and omnipotence to contend with. No matter how athrock talks about his invisible friend, he's fucked.

I agree that omniscience is problematic with both omnipotence and free will, but there's no tension so far as I can tell between a being whom possesses the power to do anything that is logically possible, and then uses that power to create beings who are free to make their own choices. That an all-powerful being does not intend to violate the freedom of creatures does not translate into an inability to do so if he so willed (which is of course why the so-called Epicurean paradox currently being discussed in another thread remains valid).

[Aegon]

I'm late to the party, but...

On the other hand, slaves who were well-treated by their owners could live a long life...have a wife and children. Beats being killed in battle or being thrown into debtors' prison, doesn't it? That's not perverse, dude. That's humane.

Slavery is not just, no matter how you spin it. Aristotle examines arguments for slavery in Politics. He begins by saying that it is in human nature to be part of human associations. It is natural for humans to not only want to live but to live a good and independent life, and it is natural for humans to live together in a meaningful way. Going off this, Aristotle draws a line by people who are slaves by law and people who are slaves by nature. Slaves by law are being ripped of their natural ability to live a good and independent life, and thus this practice is unjust. He defines a "natural slave" as someone who is completely incapable to live independently and make their own decisions; they suffer from massive cognitive disabilities, or extreme stupidity. For them, a slave's life is actually beneficial. "Natural slaves" are supposed to realize that they are better off as slaves and are supposed to happily accept this life. However, this contradicts Aristotle's definition of a human being and human nature. Being a natural slave makes you no better than an animal, and you no longer are a real person. Thus slavery in any form is unjust.

So saying, "Well slavery is better than death" isn't a justification for slavery because you're still robbing a person of something so essential to human nature. Aristotle would actually suggest that death is better than slavery, because the life of a slave is no life at all.

Also, God in the OT is a total dick.