Brainstorm

[Excited Penguin]

You would have to specifically point out what you're talking about.

I was already as specific as I need to be. Shit dude, even a third grader could understand what was meant by "last several posts".

If you have a problem with me, you need to point it out. What you're saying is paramount to I don't like you because of everything you did in your life - or at least, it's in the same league as that.

You have a problem with me and I don't know why. You don't want to explain why. Very well. That's that.

[Aegon]

Would you agree it makes you bigoted to avoid Muslims because you assume that because someone is a Muslim they automatically support the things you think they do? You think it'd be fair for anyone to avoid you for being an atheist because of their preconceived notions of what an atheist is? Those preconceived judgments would be something along the lines of, "That guy is an atheist so he automatically thinks he's smarter than religious people and is intolerant of me because I think differently than him." So, in actuality, maybe that assumption wouldn't be too far off for you, eh?

First of all, properly define the word bigot for me. Some of you seem to not understand it.

Second of all, my being an atheist doesn't say anything about myself but for one thing. But you already know that. Being a Muslim, on the other hand, could say a lot about you.

And last but not least, I never said I would avoid muslims or anything else like that. All I said is I wouldn't feel comfortable having a beer with one. Nor would I like to be friends with one. But I can't guarantee that neither of those will ever happen. It's just how I feel at the moment.

1. "A person who is utterly intolerant of differing creed, belief, or opinion."

2. Oh, the irony! You being an atheist should mean only one thing about you (that you do not believe in God.) Being a Muslim, however, should also only mean a few things about you (that you believe in God and you consider the Quoran your holy book.) If you assume anything about their beliefs past that (including how much of the Quoran they know of and how literally they interpret it) then it's no different than me assuming you're an intolerant cockface because you're an atheist.  

3. Fine. That's not much better though IMO.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Let's solve, discuss, think, invent, create and dream...anything and everything imaginable.

Is this a good idea for a thread? Do you guys want me to start us off with something in particular? Before I do that though, some general guidelines to help keep the conversation on track:

We'll discuss only one issue at a time until and unless virtually everyone seems to have either got bored with the subject or simply ran out of mental fuel to deal with it. I'm hoping this will become apparent to everyone when it happens and that it will be a natural transition from topic to topic. Also, the topic might change on its own. In that case, just go with the flow.

Naturally, none of us are experts at everything(some of us at none, myself included), and while I think everyone will agree we should encourage as open-ended a discussion as possible, where no one feels the need to hold back on their craziest ideas, I do hope due practical deference will be conveyed by us to those we genuinely think have the better argument or simply seem to know more about what it is we're talking about. That is not to say anyone should feel like they're pressured to agree with someone for those reasons alone, unless he feels like he could be actually persuaded by them. -- Which brings me to my next point:

Try and be as accessible as possible, whenever possible and/or necessary. If someone disagrees with you, try and and understand your differences of opinion and seek to converge at one point and build up from there. If you don't understand someone's point or if you want further clarification ask for it and hopefully the people involved will reciprocate.

How do we get rid of religion?

Kill all the religious people, of course! Target their churches where they meet with trained (but much over-exited) penguins - shouldn't be too hard a solution. /s

Heil, Penguin Fuhrer!

[Excited Penguin]

1. "A person who is utterly intolerant of differing creed, belief, or opinion."

That definition is slightly ambiguous. Are we talking about any differing creed, belief or opinion from your own and what do we mean by utterly intolerant?

2. Oh, the irony! You being an atheist should mean only one thing about you (that you do not believe in God.) Being a Muslim, however, should also only mean a few things about you (that you believe in God and you consider the Quoran your holy book.) If you assume anything about their beliefs past that (including how much of the Quoran they know of and how literally they interpret it) then it's no different than me assuming you're an intolerant cockface because you're an atheist.  

It's not about what it should or it shouldn't. It's merely what it is. Being an atheist does mean simply not believing in God. That could make other persons suspicious(if he doesn't believe in God, does that mean he is exactly the opposite of what the bible describes as good?). The only difference being, when you're talking about a muslim, as you yourself pointed out, you're saying they believe in a certain thing and that they follow a certain book. There is no same thing when you're talking about an atheist. There is no book and no belief to be had. In fact it's the rejection of those things that makes one an atheist, to a certain extent.

It's not my problem that muslims choose to adhere to those ideas and it's not for me to think about how much of a muslim are they when I think about making friends or having a beer with someone. If they don't want me to jump to justified conclusions they shouldn't publicly identify as muslims.

[Ravenshire]

I'm surprised it only took 22 pages for this thread to turn to crap.

I'm surprised it took that many.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

What a peculiar thing to say. Neither am I. Who is?

What a naïve thing to say.

Although the antitheists who think a police state is a small price to pay for eradicating religion are a small minority, it's not small enough by a long shot. Here when someone suggests an extreme 'solution', they're kidding. That's not always the case in the wild.

I hope you understand that most anti-theists, including me would never advocate any sort of a police state. It just happens that we aren't too busy smoking weed to notice that there are powerful theists who do want to make our country a police state, and they will get it if they are allowed to act unopposed. When we rally to protect reproductive and bodily autonomy rights, protest the pollution of the science classroom with unscientific nonsense, sue to protect children from being forced to deal with their prayer rituals in their schools, or hang billboards to encourage other atheists to speak out, none of this is the practice of totalitarianism.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Religion declines as education improves. It is logical enough to assume that this trend will continue worldwide, and the problem will take care of itself. Our lifespans are usually too short and fleeting to see significant change, but significant change has happened before us and will continue on after us.

Now, fuck religion. Let's brainstorm how we're going to feed the world as desertification accelerates and human population continuing to rise.

History says otherwise. Religion never, ever withers and rolls over, it doubles down and it rallies its goons with a vengeance. Have you really not noticed what's been going on in Texas, California, and Tennesee? Our chances of having evangelical asshat Cruz in the White House a year from now just became ~50% likely in Iowa!

I'm not looking to start a fight, I'm just saying we really can't afford to be so confident or cocky about this - the more that progress is made, the more there will always be the need for greater vigilance.

[Joods]

I was already as specific as I need to be. Shit dude, even a third grader could understand what was meant by "last several posts".

If you have a problem with me, you need to point it out. What you're saying is paramount to I don't like you because of everything you did in your life - or at least, it's in the same league as that.

You have a problem with me and I don't know why. You don't want to explain why. Very well. That's that.

You are a grown up, not a three year old. If you cannot understand simple, easy to use English, then there is no hope for you. And I don't necessarily have a problem with you, but your attitude towards others. While you are still young enough to get it, learn how to not judge people based on your preconceived notions of what you think they are or are not. Otherwise, you won't get very far in this life, with anything.

[Excited Penguin]

If you have a problem with me, you need to point it out. What you're saying is paramount to I don't like you because of everything you did in your life - or at least, it's in the same league as that.

You have a problem with me and I don't know why. You don't want to explain why. Very well. That's that.

You are a grown up, not a three year old. If you cannot understand simple, easy to use English, then there is no hope for you. And I don't necessarily have a problem with you, but your attitude towards others. While you are still young enough to get it, learn how to not judge people based on your preconceived notions of what you think they are or are not. Otherwise, you won't get very far in this life, with anything.

You're trying to make it as if Islam is a benign set of ideas. It isn't. Insofar as one is a Muslim he has some problematic beliefs that need to be challenged. Same holds true for almost any other religion, including Christianity and Judaism. It just so happens that I have more reason to be wary of Muslims than of anyone else at the moment. If any Muslim doesn't like that, they should either deal with the problems in their own communities and revise the way themselves and/or other people adhere to their Muslim faith or cease to identify as Muslims.

[Excited Penguin]

Also, I can think of at least one Muslim I would very much like to have a beer with. And that is Maajid Nawaz.