What is Meant by "Charge" for Elementary Particles?

[Anomalocaris]

An Electron walks into a bar and order a drink for the proton. He found her very attractive.

Especially her positive attitude

[Anomalocaris]

Reminds me of the e joke Sheldon made on Big Bang Theory "A neutron walks into a bar, and asks the bartender "How much for a drink? The bartender responds, "For you, no charge."

As he makes a muon her.

[Anomalocaris]

and a thought experiment:

imagine 2 new kinds of particles, also with a new kind of charge, one particle that repels both electrons and positrons and the other one that attracts both electrons and positrons.

Do these 2 new particles attract or repel each other ??

They certainly have combustible personalities.

[Brian37]

Somewhere in this meeting Neil Hosts, worth the watch, I remember him talking to the QM M theorists lady who was basically saying science is pointing to "all this" collapsing to nothing at the wave function level. It was fun to see Neil's reaction to what she was saying. Now of course they describe it much better than I am here, so listen to them, not me.

Kinda like turning your light switch off.  That this is some really serious stuff, I realize Neil was polite enough in this to bring in a "Christian scientist" as part of this panel, and sure the one guy is, but I wouldn't be so polite, once you start trying to use science to justify an antiquated book of myth, you've lost. But here it is, worth a watch if you really like being humbled by reality and in awe of it too. Lawrence Krauss is also a scientist in this, he is awesome too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OLz6uUuMp8

[Alex K]

@Meandering Atheist,

I agree but to pick nits,
the exchange of photons as the origin of the em force is pretty well-understood from a theory perspective. I wouldn't call it action at a distance since it is communicated with finite speed ©

[robvalue]

Charge for elementary particles?

Fucking banks these days, I don't know.

[Meandering Atheist -J-]

@Meandering Atheist,

I agree but to pick nits,
the exchange of photons as the origin of the em force is pretty well-understood from a theory perspective. I wouldn't call it action at a distance since it is communicated with finite speed ©

Perfect! I was hoping we would get into this. When I say 'action at a distance' I mean that it does not make sense for objects to interact without touching each other. The exchange of photons does little to quell this dilemma, as the photon exchange still occurs without direct contact. The photon may travel from one particle to another, but that doesn't explain how the photon knows that the other particle is there.

[Alex K]

@Meandering Atheist,

I agree but to pick nits,
the exchange of photons as the origin of the em force is pretty well-understood from a theory perspective. I wouldn't call it action at a distance since it is communicated with finite speed ©

Perfect! I was hoping we would get into this. When I say 'action at a distance' I mean that it does not make sense for objects to interact without touching each other. The exchange of photons does little to quell this dilemma, as the photon exchange still occurs without direct contact. The photon may travel from one particle to another, but that doesn't explain how the photon knows that the other particle is there.

Finding intuitions behind these processes described by Feynman graphs is a difficult, but interesting exercise.

I'm not sure the photon needs to know beforehand that there is another electron. Electrons are surrounded by a cloud of virtual photons which they give off and absorb all the time even when they are alone (as indicated by self-energy diagrams). If there is another electron in the vicinity, they can be absorbed by that one from time to time. At least that's my half baked explanation.

[Meandering Atheist -J-]

Finding intuitions behind these processes described by Feynman graphs is a difficult, but interesting exercise.

I'm not sure the photon needs to know beforehand that there is another electron. Electrons are surrounded by a cloud of virtual photons which they give off and absorb all the time even when they are alone (as indicated by self-energy diagrams). If there is another electron in the vicinity, they can be absorbed by that one from time to time. At least that's my half baked explanation.

I did not know about the 'photon cloud' you described. That would begin to explain how the particles interact, but I can still just zoom in unless there's a continuous and completely filled space. Plus, electric and magnetic fields are quite large when we get enough piled together. We're talking about macroscopic lengths coming from stacks of electrons.

I don't think there is a good answer to this, but it is fun to think about.

[vorlon13]

And cool off your little electron there and get a Bose Einstein condensate going.

Get it cold enough and you can blur it out indefinitely.

Indefinitely.

Like 'immense'.