Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 30, 2024, 12:54 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Translation of Luke 2:2
#1
Translation of Luke 2:2
Need help from someone more proficient with Koine Greek than I am. One apologist who's seen my Jesus Timeline video has claimed that Luke 2:2 says the census occurred "before" governor Quirinius, not "during". This is an attempt to square Luke with Matthew and push Jesus back to the reign of Herod the Great.

The obvious problem, to me, is that I can't find a single Bible translation that supports the use of the word "before". All of them, without fail, say "during" or "while" or "when". The closest thing I (and he) could find was the ESV which had a footnote suggesting the alternate translation. However, even this version used the word "when".

Anyone know anything more about this apology?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply
#2
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
It's a ridiculous argument...but xtians don't mind being ridiculous when trying to save their fairy tales.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/r....html#Word

Quote:Did Luke Mean "Before" Quirinius?

Some have tried to argue that the Greek of Luke actually might mean a census "before" the reign of Quirinius rather than the "first" census in his reign. As to this, even Sherwin-White remarks that he has "no space to bother with the more fantastic theories...such as that of W. Heichelheim's (and others') suggestion (Roman Syria, 161) that prôtê in Luke iii.2 means proteron, [which] could only be accepted if supported by a parallel in Luke himself."[10.1] He would no doubt have elaborated if he thought it worthwhile to refute such a "fantastic" conjecture. For in fact this argument is completely disallowed by the rules of Greek grammar. First of all, the basic meaning is clear and unambiguous, so there is no reason even to look for another meaning. The passage says hautê apographê prôtê egeneto hêgemoneuontos tês Syrias Kyrêniou, or with interlinear translation, hautê(this) apographê(census) prôtê[the] (first) egeneto(happened to be) hêgemoneuontos[while] (governing) tês Syrias(Syria) Kyrêniou[was] (Quirinius). The correct word order, in English, is "this happened to be the first census while Quirinius was governing Syria." This is very straightforward, and all translations render it in such a manner.
Reply
#3
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
Clearly, Satan changed the wording in the original Greek translation. Yes, that must be it. It obviously couldn't be that the Bible is a collection of desert scribblings full of fanciful metaphysical pre-scientific hocus-pocus, with no regard for history or reality in general...




...could it?
'We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.' H.L. Mencken

'False religion' is the ultimate tautology.

'It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.' Mark Twain

'I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.' Abraham Lincoln
Reply
#4
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
"Luke" and "Matthew" (names made up by later editors) were telling stories to different audiences. With the focus on Jewish rites, customs and personalities it would appear that whoever wrote "Matthew" was writing for a Palestinian audience, whereas the author of "Luke", with his focus on Roman personalities was writing for a Greco-Roman audience that didn't give a shit about Jewish rituals.

Neither author had any idea that their novels would later be scooped up by pious assholes and combined into a single "book" which only shows the contradictions between them all the more clearly. Any time now one of our resident xtian nuts will drop by and sprain his scrotum trying to "explain" how the obvious contradiction is not a contradiction at all. It's always good for a laugh when they do that.
Reply
#5
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
The Ommnisiunt One:

Yes Satan must have changed it! There is no other explaination! Of course, if I was an all powerful God I would have stopped Satan from doing it.

This debunking religion lark is so easy.
Reply
#6
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
Yeah - that 'Satan' outfoxes 'god' at every turn, doesn't he?
Reply
#7
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
I can't help thinking that if I were an an all powerful God I would just....errr........stop him.
(July 20, 2010 at 2:34 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Yeah - that 'Satan' outfoxes 'god' at every turn, doesn't he?

Ahhh good old Satan.
Reply
#8
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
'God' always comes across as something of a schlepper. Of course the morons claim he wins in the end but you'd expect that from them, wouldn't you?
Reply
#9
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
Waiting for me min? Actually I quite agree with your assessment and appreciate the good read.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Reply
#10
RE: Translation of Luke 2:2
Nah, you weren't the one(s) I had in mind.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Luke 4:5 LinuxGal 2 604 August 22, 2023 at 2:34 am
Last Post: FrustratedFool
  Luke 4:5 LinuxGal 17 2503 December 3, 2022 at 11:29 am
Last Post: brewer
  Need bible translation brewer 31 5825 July 1, 2015 at 2:55 am
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  What's the Difference Between a Translation and a Version Rhondazvous 19 12504 May 13, 2015 at 5:31 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  What is (are) the best translation(s) of the bible? The Skeptic 17 6026 November 19, 2010 at 6:07 am
Last Post: Justtristo



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)