Translation of Luke 2:2

[DeistPaladin]

Need help from someone more proficient with Koine Greek than I am. One apologist who's seen my Jesus Timeline video has claimed that Luke 2:2 says the census occurred "before" governor Quirinius, not "during". This is an attempt to square Luke with Matthew and push Jesus back to the reign of Herod the Great.

The obvious problem, to me, is that I can't find a single Bible translation that supports the use of the word "before". All of them, without fail, say "during" or "while" or "when". The closest thing I (and he) could find was the ESV which had a footnote suggesting the alternate translation. However, even this version used the word "when".

Anyone know anything more about this apology?

[Minimalist]

It's a ridiculous argument...but xtians don't mind being ridiculous when trying to save their fairy tales.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/r....html#Word

Did Luke Mean "Before" Quirinius?

Some have tried to argue that the Greek of Luke actually might mean a census "before" the reign of Quirinius rather than the "first" census in his reign. As to this, even Sherwin-White remarks that he has "no space to bother with the more fantastic theories...such as that of W. Heichelheim's (and others') suggestion (Roman Syria, 161) that prôtê in Luke iii.2 means proteron, [which] could only be accepted if supported by a parallel in Luke himself."[10.1] He would no doubt have elaborated if he thought it worthwhile to refute such a "fantastic" conjecture. For in fact this argument is completely disallowed by the rules of Greek grammar. First of all, the basic meaning is clear and unambiguous, so there is no reason even to look for another meaning. The passage says hautê apographê prôtê egeneto hêgemoneuontos tês Syrias Kyrêniou, or with interlinear translation, hautê(this) apographê(census) prôtê[the] (first) egeneto(happened to be) hêgemoneuontos[while] (governing) tês Syrias(Syria) Kyrêniou[was] (Quirinius). The correct word order, in English, is "this happened to be the first census while Quirinius was governing Syria." This is very straightforward, and all translations render it in such a manner.

[The Omnissiunt One]

Clearly, Satan changed the wording in the original Greek translation. Yes, that must be it. It obviously couldn't be that the Bible is a collection of desert scribblings full of fanciful metaphysical pre-scientific hocus-pocus, with no regard for history or reality in general...




...could it?

[Minimalist]

"Luke" and "Matthew" (names made up by later editors) were telling stories to different audiences. With the focus on Jewish rites, customs and personalities it would appear that whoever wrote "Matthew" was writing for a Palestinian audience, whereas the author of "Luke", with his focus on Roman personalities was writing for a Greco-Roman audience that didn't give a shit about Jewish rituals.

Neither author had any idea that their novels would later be scooped up by pious assholes and combined into a single "book" which only shows the contradictions between them all the more clearly. Any time now one of our resident xtian nuts will drop by and sprain his scrotum trying to "explain" how the obvious contradiction is not a contradiction at all. It's always good for a laugh when they do that.

[CoolBoy]

The Ommnisiunt One:

Yes Satan must have changed it! There is no other explaination! Of course, if I was an all powerful God I would have stopped Satan from doing it.

This debunking religion lark is so easy.

[Minimalist]

Yeah - that 'Satan' outfoxes 'god' at every turn, doesn't he?

[CoolBoy]

I can't help thinking that if I were an an all powerful God I would just....errr........stop him.

---

Yeah - that 'Satan' outfoxes 'god' at every turn, doesn't he?

Ahhh good old Satan.

[Minimalist]

'God' always comes across as something of a schlepper. Of course the morons claim he wins in the end but you'd expect that from them, wouldn't you?

[tackattack]

Waiting for me min? Actually I quite agree with your assessment and appreciate the good read.

[Minimalist]

Nah, you weren't the one(s) I had in mind.