The Siege of Mecca - a question about the Mahdi

[FebruaryOfReason]

I have just finished reading an excellent book (non-fiction) called "The Siege of Mecca" by Yaroslav Trofimov

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Siege-Mecca-...0141034068

On 20 November 1979, a large group of gunmen led by the fanatic Juhayman bin Seif Uteybi stormed the Grand Mosque in Mecca and proclaimed one of their number - Mohammed Abdullah al Qahtani – as the Mahdi. (The Mahdi is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will rule for seven, nine, or nineteen years - according to differing interpretations - before the Day of Judgment).

This book is well worth a read – it’s very well written and has loads of information about Islam, the architecture of the Grand Mosque etc. The author manages to convey the deep sense of panic and rage spreading across the Middle East at the violation of Islam’s holiest shrine, the Saudi Arabian government’s desperate struggle to regain control of the mosque, and the consequences of the action that are still felt today.

And it raised a question for me. According to the hadith, the Madhi cannot be killed, at least not in the first few years of his reign.
http://www.mahdi.com/article.php_id=30233.html

But of course, the proclaimed Mahdi was killed by Saudi troops during the battle to retake the mosque. And this was taken as evidence that he was not the Mahdi.

My question is this: faith eschews exactly this kind of physical evidence. So might Mohammed Abdullah al Qahtani have actually been the Mahdi?
After all, it is only his physical death that argues against this, and faith is not a matter of considering the physical evidence, surely?

In which case, wasn't it a bit of an own goal to kill him?

[ReptilianPeon]

You know, Muhammad Jaunpuri claimed to be Imam Mahdi in and he died in 1443 (he is revered by Mahdavia and Zikris, two tiny and irrelevant sects). This is nothing new. Some people are just deluded like that. I think the terrorists who defiled the Grand Mosque were just a ragtag bunch of men with too much testosterone.

I'd love to know what's inside the Kaaba, where al-Ḥajar al-Aswad comes from (like test it in a lab) and if Saudi is keeping the Zamzam flowing by artificial means. There is zero archaeological evidence to back up the assertions made by Quran 2:127 or Quran 3:96. Those spreading the cultural hegemony of al-Saud would be screaming from every rooftop if they managed to prove the Great Mosque is as old as the Quran claims.

[Minimalist]

General Gordon defended Khartoum from another mahdi in the 1880's.  Mahdis are like camel shit in the Middle East.  They're everywhere.

[WinterHold]

The "Mahdi" -means the guided one- is a concept that is the newborn of Sunni & Shia faith; some Islamic sects are built upon it -like the Shia twelver sect-; but that doesn't make it something more than an eschatology Hadith; with so many tribal dejavus.

The mahdi's own sign of recognition is very tribal; he is supposed to be a decendent from the family of the prophet, he must have a specific name too: Mohammed, the son of Abdullah; and a family tree that goes up until Ali & Fatima's 2 kids: Hassan and Hussain. Sunnies say he must belong to Hassan, Shia say Hussain is the right pick..

Wahabbies in Saudi Arabia kept the people drunk in end of times Hadiths; along with the bigotry of the ruling clan, invading the holy mosque was so convincing to these fanatics.

Until this day, ISIS and so many Jihadists carry this idea. Shia too, more extremly since their faith is literally evolved about this upcoming even where Madi comes to earth and spill rivers of blood.
Too many copy cats showed up through history too, claiming to be the one..

But his stories are found in nowhere, but the Hadiths.

[ReptilianPeon]

AtlasS33 is right; I've yet to find anything obviously related to the Mahdi in the Quran myself (although I can't say that I've looked that hard). Some Christians have claimed the Anti-Christ is the Mahdi, or something to that effect. But they rely heavily on Hadith to make their case, which is not the best idea.

It's just too ridiculous that somebody is going to come along an kill all of the Kuffar - what ever happened to free will? It makes it seems as though Allah doesn't really care for us. It's actually rather sad to think that Nelson Mandela could be in the hellfire right now simply for not believing. Allah one mixed up deity.

[WinterHold]

AtlasS33 is right; I've yet to find anything obviously related to the Mahdi in the Quran myself (although I can't say that I've looked that hard). Some Christians have claimed the Anti-Christ is the Mahdi, or something to that effect. But they rely heavily on Hadith to make their case, which is not the best idea.

It's just too ridiculous that somebody is going to come along an kill all of the Kuffar - what ever happened to free will? It makes it seems as though Allah doesn't really care for us. It's actually rather sad to think that Nelson Mandela could be in the hellfire right now simply for not believing. Allah one mixed up deity.

A lot of the concepts that decorate the Islamic sects, are additions that the Quran never mentioned.
The Mahdi's topic cannot be reopened before mentioning the upcoming of Christ; the Muslim rapture tale; but instead of taking the good guys to heaven, comforting wind will kill them with ease, and the rest of humanity remains to live with no morals, until the "horn" is blown.

I'm telling the story so you detect the similarities between it, and between the Christian version. As if you're saying:"If Rome has Jesus, we have the Mehdi ! actually; we have them both", or, maybe those Hadiths did tell the truth?


ISIS was mentioned in a Hadith related to Al-Mahdi; btw:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/saeed-yaw...573066669/

These Hadiths were used "extensively" by the supporters of ISIS. That's why I thought somebody is behind it; they are copycatting the people mentioned in the black flags' Hadiths, now I can imagine ISIS officers, receiving training at a Mossad safehouse, having long beard, wearing black, long hair, have names that go with country names -like Abo Khalid Al French-, screaming "allahu akbar", butchering others so brutally -just like the Hadith predicted-.. Is somebody using these hadiths to play a game or something?

One thing I know: this type of propaganda was always coming from governmental sources

[vorlon13]

Seems kinda cheeky to even attempt to stop a possible mahdi since it MIGHT be the 'real' one.

And then what happens to you for pissing it off ??

[ReptilianPeon]

Like I said before, if there are enough believers, they will work together so that they can claim prophecy has been fulfilled. That's why Gulf Cooperation Council countries compete with each other to build tall structures: Muhammad didn't pit a time frame on Arabs competing with each other in this way, so it would have happened eventually, and Saudi and the Emirates in particular, are making it happen - and wasting valuable resources in doing so.

Prophecy is nothing special unless it involves the supernatural. And al-Saud is going to be so perplexed when Isa doesn't descend upon Damascus. Did all of those hundreds of thousands of people really need to die? These Wahaabi-Salafi types are so selfish. To be clear, there are lots of selfish people of all types - I'm just saying al-Saud doesn't really care about the Ummah.

Why can't the Wahaabis/Salafis simply negotiate with Allah, like Muhammad did during the night journey? After all, they are all about getting rid of Bid'ah so maybe Allah likes that and blessed Saudi with oil (that's what Abdur Rahim-Green said he believes in his "How I Found Muhammad" talk*). I mention this in the other topic: Fallible humans can change the mind of Allah. Moses gave Muhammad some advice that humanity can't handle fifty a day Salat so Muhammad got it changed. That story is so confusing to me.

*Abdur said he looked around the world to find people who had the most wealth with the least effort and his conclusion was Allah blessed the Saudis with oil. And this is his reason for reciting Shahada and now al-Saud gives him lots of money so that he can brainwash other white people. He's such a silly individual.

EDIT:
I believe this was the video I wasted my time watching:
(he starts rambling about easy wealth at 46 minute mark and he goes through a list of countries)
Notice how everyone claps at the 48:07 minutes mark when he's praising the Saudis. I feel sorry for the audience. They are like puppets. I feel sick now. He says the Saudi having lots of oil is no coincidence, but Iran and Russia both have lots of oil too - are those not coincidences either?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePRTTrDVMk

[FebruaryOfReason]

...

I tried to give you more rep for this, dude, but the UI wouldn't let me. Kudos anyway

[FebruaryOfReason]

Seems kinda cheeky to even attempt to stop a possible mahdi since it MIGHT be the 'real' one.

And then what happens to you for pissing it off ??

Precisely. The guy fitted the physical description of the Mahdi to a T. He was of the right tribe and everything.
Saying he wasn't the Mahdi because he died is on the same level as looking at a 100million year old fossil and claiming that Allah put it there.