Is Lack of Belief the Best You Can Do?

[The Valkyrie]

"Is Lack of Belief the Best You Can Do"

No.

But it's all we need.

[drfuzzy]

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 I disagree with the author. A lot of Atheists...recognize.

1. It's possible time must have started.
2. It's possible that there is no real possibility of the universe being in a timeless state then causing a time state.

This is gives plausibility to Deism in many of their minds. 

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That is to say, a Creator may be necessary for all we know. This is not the same as possibilities of fairies etc.

Why not?  We have no evidence of a creator, and we have no evidence of fairies.

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 I further argue. Some Atheists positively know time must have started and always talk about the universe was without time and then shifted to time, but give possibility in that it may be impossible for that to happen.

In this case, active disbelief would a positive faith in not only that they know it's possible a timeless creator didn't create this world, but that are relatively certain that a Creator is not the only option available.

That said, I feel the most honest Atheist I know on these forums is Tiberius in which he stated that he doesn't know whether Theists actually know God exists. He just believes he himself doesn't know God exists and hence doesn't believe in God.

And this is logical step to take. The reason being if you are open to the possibility of it existing, you should not deny the possibility of people having knowledge of it existing unless you can prove: Where it to exist, it would not impart knowledge.

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 I further argue you should question whether that knowledge is in you (but I understand Atheists will not do that) somehow, but you just have to recognize it.

 Well then, god did a really shitty job of hiding that knowledge. We really have to dig for it, and some people who pray for decades never find it.  Terrible communication skills. And if it was really there, why is that "knowledge" different depending upon what church your parents went to? If there was a "message" it should all be the same message, and it should be provable.

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All points of time came to be, and if all points of time came to be, then it cannot be said any of time didn't start or that time over all didn't start or that all of time didn't start, and hence we know time started.

So if a person accepts that much, they have to think what is more special pleading saying that universe had a timeless state that resulted in time state universe as we know it or to say no it could not have started change in itself without time being present already. 

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That said a person can say he still doesn't believe either way. But it is a whole different thing to treat the possibility of the Creator in the realm of invisible dragons or what not. -- Again, why not? We don't have proof of either.

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The same is with consciousness being explained by a soul or a soul being observable to us. Or other things like the transcendent nature of love or goodness.

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People can say they don't believe either way, but it's a whole different level of dishonesty to say you know it's not true or you know a Creator cannot or has not imparted knowledge of it's nature of it's existence to human beings.

You've been on this forum a while, MK.  You know that even folks here who claim to be gnostic atheists will assert that science has utterly failed to prove for or against the existence of a deity. It is also true that the fragmentation of religions and the lack of a coherent message weighs in against the existence of a deity.  We don't know whether there is one or not.  There is simply a lack of evidence for belief.  That's interesting in the light of sects like fundie xtians or fundie muslims, who pray for the day when "every knee shall bow" to their god. God wants a coherent message - get the preachers out of the way and let god give one. Then we would actually have some proof.

[LadyForCamus]

We really don't need to "do" anything. We're surrounded by people who have imaginary friends. What exactly should we do? What can we do?

We try and get along with them as best we can, and to step in if we seem harm being caused.

Remember, not even members of the same sect of the same religion can even agree what the hell it is they're even talking about. So how they expect to put a coherent case to atheists, I have no idea.

And believing "in God" is quite different from believing a bunch of really specific things about that God, and worshipping it. The reason many of us aren't in religion has nothing to do with the existence of "God".

It has crossed my mind that some theists might be jealous. I'm not trying to be a dick about, but seriously, I wonder. It's such an easy stance to defend (not that you are required to defend it): I don't believe stuff until I have evidence. The theist, on the other hand, has to jump through hoops and twist themselves in knots trying to define and validate their belief; then to try and correlate it with reality.

Yeah, I think you hit on something here, Rob. It has got to be exhausting after years and years (or walls and walls of text in some cases) of attempts to justify a belief in this thing you can't demonstrate exists. Compare that to the ease with which we can justify our position: "please provide evidence." -END

If I were a theist I might become resentful of this burden over time, especially if I felt responsible for convincing people that they should believe in God, which is why I think Chad (and others) try so hard to share it with us.

[Mystic]

It has crossed my mind that some theists might be jealous.

If I'm jealous, it would be like something for not getting to see all those pics of Valkyrie or SummerQueen in A69.
And if I'm jealous it would be for not being able to do what I want like have sex with "friends with benefits" relationship. 
However I am grateful for the favor of guidance and thank God for guiding me to Mohammad and his 12 Successors.

[Minimalist]

YOu better play closer attention because allah will fry your ass for even thinking that!

[Ben Davis]

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As a believer I still like to follow the musings of the "opposition". Occasionally I find positions with which I agree. Even before reading this article, I adopted a signature mocking the idea that atheism is simply a lack of belief. I have posted this link as an invitation to discuss the points raised by the author who just so happens to be an atheist:

https://philosophersgroan.wordpress.com/...we-can-do/

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Summary of the article for those who don't have the time to read:

I don't understand the difference between 'atheism' and 'antitheism' therefore 'atheism' must be defined wrong

[LadyForCamus]

It has crossed my mind that some theists might be jealous.

If I'm jealous, it would be like something for not getting to see all those pics of Valkyrie or SummerQueen in A69.
And if I'm jealous it would be for not being able to do what I want like have sex with "friends with benefits" relationship. 
However I am grateful for the favor of guidance and thank God for guiding me to Mohammad and his 12 Successors.

What?! There are naked photographs of members in A69?! I didn't know people did that here. What a salacious bunch you are! [emoji12]

[Esquilax]

What?!  There are naked photographs of members in A69?!  I didn't know people did that here.  What a salacious bunch you are! [emoji12]

It's basically one big porn pile- pictorial and written alike- with like one weed thread in there too.

[LadyForCamus]

What?!  There are naked photographs of members in A69?!  I didn't know people did that here.  What a salacious bunch you are! [emoji12]

It's basically one big porn pile- pictorial and written alike- with like one weed thread in there too.

LOL, that sounds amazing!

[The Valkyrie]

If I'm jealous, it would be like something for not getting to see all those pics of Valkyrie or SummerQueen in A69.
And if I'm jealous it would be for not being able to do what I want like have sex with "friends with benefits" relationship. 
However I am grateful for the favor of guidance and thank God for guiding me to Mohammad and his 12 Successors.

What?!  There are naked photographs of members in A69?!  I didn't know people did that here.  What a salacious bunch you are! [emoji12]

yes, there are quite a few pictures of "members" in there.