What came first, the atheist or the theist?

[Scented Nectar]

so then do we agree atleast that the idea of there being a god propped up in a human mind earlier in history than did the idea of there not being a god?

Of course. Why else would everyone tell you how atheism preceded theism if they did not mean the exact opposite of that?

[Ace Otana]

Paul -

Before you become aware of the concept of god, yes you can say that you had no opinion either way. But as soon as you do become aware of the concept, you will of course form an opinion one way or the other. You will either say "yes I believe there is one", or you'll say "No, I believe that there isn't one".

"No, I don't believe that there is one".

Thought I should correct you there.

[Tiberius]

Before you become aware of the concept of god, yes you can say that you had no opinion either way. But as soon as you do become aware of the concept, you will of course form an opinion one way or the other. You will either say "yes I believe there is one", or you'll say "No, I believe that there isn't one".

As Ace said, one can not believe in God, rather than believe that he doesn't exist. Semantic differences in this case are very important in distinguishing between two categories of atheist.

I'll also point out that non-beliefs don't require you to answer any question, or say anything about them. They are non-beliefs; absences of belief. Whatever the belief is, a non-believer doesn't have that belief. This might be due to them knowing about the belief and thinking it is ridiculous, or them not knowing about the belief and therefore not having a belief by default.

So having no opinion either way simply means that the person is a passive atheist; someone who has no beliefs in God (through circumstances that meant they had never heard of the concept before).

[Godhead]

Adrian -

Ok so a passive atheist is someone who stays away from the whole "why do you disbelieve" question, and presumably an active atheist is someone who addresses it as they feel that they have the answer.

[The Omnissiunt One]

Theism is more natural than atheism, I think theism definitely came first. I think that if you took x number of newborn babies and raised them away from all societies, and didn't mention anything to do with god, most of them would be theists.

I think if you took newborn babies away, you'd be arrested.

Seriously, though, you might at a push be able to say that some deist beliefs or belief in the supernatural were ingrained in us, but you're not telling me that one of those babies, when they'd grown up, would suddenly go, 'Aha! There must be something called transubstantiation!'

[Tiberius]

A passive atheist is someone who doesn't have any belief in Gods via a default position. For instance, a baby is a passive atheist, since babies do not have the mental capacity (yet) to understand concepts of belief, let alone the whole idea of God.

An active atheist is someone who understands the concept, but forms an active disbelief of it. This could be in the form of a rejection, or a simple absence of persuasion in the direction of belief.

[Ace Otana]

Adrian -

Ok so a passive atheist is someone who stays away from the whole "why do you disbelieve" question, and presumably an active atheist is someone who addresses it as they feel that they have the answer.

Godhead. Go on wiki and type in first agnostic atheist then gnostic atheist.
You'll see the differance between the two. I'm an agnostic atheist.

A little knowledge can go along way my friend.

[Godhead]

Ace -

Yes gnostic means that one claims to know. I'm a gnostic theist, which means that I know that god exists. A gnostic atheist on the other hand is someone who claims to know that god doesn't exist. I'm no good at explaining how I know that god exists but I wondered if any gnostic atheists could explain how there's no god. The "burden of proof" excuse doesn't apply to gnostic atheists.

[Ace Otana]

I'm a gnostic theist, which means that I know that god exists.

Well personaly, I don't believe that you know. You think you know from my point of view since I don't think it's possible to 'know' if there is a god or not. So since you claim to know there is a god, do you care to prove to us that god exists? Some evidence maybe?

I wondered if any gnostic atheists could explain how there's no god.

Well I don't know if this forum has any gnostic atheists. I'm agnostic atheist so I can't help you here. I don't believe it's possible to know whether a god exists or not. All I'm interested in is if there are any theists out there that will actually try to prove their claims with actual evidence. I have never incountered a theist who could actually support his/her claims.

I'm no good at explaining how I know that god exists

It's probably because you can't. Any explanation you give will be met with heavy criticism due to it's total lack of credibility.

[Godhead]

Ace -

Not only can I not prove anything, but even if I could, I probably wouldn't. Yet I still know that god exists without any doubt whatsoever. So no, no evidence is forthcoming from me., not even if I had it. I'd keep it to myself.