Voting Bernie?

[abaris]

We are already a democratic socialist country. Students already get Federal Student Aid (FAFSA), Social Security exists, so does Medicare/Medicaid. Our infrastructure and military are examples of democratic socialism at work.

No, you're not. You're pretty far removed from democratic socialism. You're even far removed from European conservative systems. universal healthcare isn't up for debate here, just to give one example. And pointing at infrastructure or the military, I can only take as being ironic. I don't know if you've been abroad, but power lines running above grid, so that every storm can hit them at it's leisure, is a thing of the past in many European countries.

What is true, your population, going by polls on social issues, would like some kind of democratic socialism. In it's majority. Even the rednecks cheering Trump on.

[SteelCurtain]

We are already a democratic socialist country. Students already get Federal Student Aid (FAFSA), Social Security exists, so does Medicare/Medicaid. Our infrastructure and military are examples of democratic socialism at work.

No, you're not. You're pretty far removed from democratic socialism. You're even far removed from European conservative systems. universal healthcare isn't up for debate here, just to give one example. And pointing at infrastructure or the military, I can only take as being ironic. I don't know if you've been abroad, but power lines running above grid, so that every storm can hit them at it's leisure, is a thing of the past in many European countries.

What is true, your population, going by polls on social issues, would like some kind of democratic socialism. In it's majority. Even the rednecks cheering Trump on.

We are talking a spectrum, here. Sure, there are European countries that are way closer to the socialist end of that spectrum, but the point is that some of the things Bernie supports don't represent a 180 degree turn for our current system.

All he is talking about is removing some of the corporate welfare and taxing speculative trading and using that money to help the people. We treat corporations in America like fragile little babies in need of constant support.

I was citing infrastructure as an example of democratic socialism. It makes no difference that our infrastructure is terrible. Incidentally, another part of Bernie's platform.

[abaris]

We are talking a spectrum, here. Sure, there are European countries that are way closer to the socialist end of that spectrum, but the point is that some of the things Bernie supports don't represent a 180 degree turn for our current system.

No, the US isn't even close to European conservatives. That's why Bernie is considered a dogmatic socialist by the mainstream. Obama would be considered a moderate conservative on social issues here. If you strip him of his war record, that is.

[SteelCurtain]

Again, I understand that Europe is far to the left of American politics. I am not saying that we are even close.

My point, again, is that we already employ a lot democratic socialist programs. Medicaid/Medicare, Social Security, Federal Student Aid, fire/police/emergency, infrastructure, military, the VA, disability, welfare, food stamps, etc. Hell, I got a $2500 check in addition to my tax refund from the government just for going to college, not being a dependent, and not earning over $40k this year.

All this to combat the narrative that Bernie represents some massive political turnaround.

[Phosphorescent Panties]

Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist. He's not going to take away people's money and just give it to other people, he's just going to rearrange where are tax money is going into. If you look at the countries that are actually socialist like Sweden and Denmark and stuff, which is where Bernie is actually modeling his ideas from; not Cuba or Mao China. He wants to take the programs that we already have which are socialist, which are stuff we already have like health care and free education to a certain level; which believe it or not is what socialism is, which is where society as a whole helps pay for things; and expand on them instead of say, spending a trillions of dollars on war and a new fleet of airplanes that don't function and are unusable. I have yet to see an alternative to paying taxes, I know there's people out there who say we shouldn't have taxes because "taxes are theft" but when I press these people, they haven't yet offered me an alternative.

[Chad32]

You have to look at other democratic socialist countries like Denmark and sweden. His policies work. They just don't allow already incredibly rich people to get rich at such a fast pace, so the people in power in this oligarchy we have don't like it.

[Phosphorescent Panties]

You have to look at other democratic socialist countries like Denmark and sweden. His policies work. They just don't allow already incredibly rich people to get rich at such a fast pace, so the people in power in this oligarchy we have don't like it.

Right, but news media won't make any comments about how corporate interests run our country, because they basically are the corporate interests. News media isn't trustworthy, they press for this establishment candidate, when there's a reason people are looking for someone outside of the system like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. Maybe if Bernie Sanders gets elected then he won't get any of his ideas past the disgusting wreck of a congress we have, but the entire political system in our country seems totally broken.

[Chad32]

Mainstream media is corrupt, but there's new media, and the internet. He will have ways of getting news to the people, and if he actually hammers the republicans on issues, things will work. Back when Sandy Hook happened, like 90+% of americans wanted gun reform. The republicans blocked it, and the democrats dropped the subject. They should have been using the media to hammer republicans about why they blocked a bill that most Americans, including republican and NRA voters, wanted passed. That's how you should play politics. let the voters know that republicans are being obstructionist. Don't let the issue rest. republicans tried to get rid of Obamacare 55 times, despite Obama being able to veto it.

It is possible to punish obstructionist republicans, but you have to play ball. We need a president with a backbone. Hillary isn't going to do that.

[Phosphorescent Panties]

I watched a really interesting ted talk about how the NRA is trying to block a lot of thing for their corporate interest like a certain kind of background check and putting in new measures to stop children being able to access guns, but the NRA lobbyists are trying to block this because of corporate interest in spite of the fact that the majority of people in both parties want more security around guns. It's a really interesting ted talk video https://embed-ssl.ted.com/talks/dan_gros...ormal.html

[Aegon]

A guy at work made a good point.

I remain unbiased until I hear other opinions first, however.

If Bernie is a socialist, how will that affect this country if he is elected?

It won't as he will get nothing through the House.

Let's say lawmaking is a football field. The President and the Democrats are on one side, the GOP is on the other, and the 50-yard line is in the middle, representing true compromise. If President Sanders starts on one side of the football field and the House Republicans start on the other, if they both keep giving up yards eventually they'll wind up somewhere near the 50. If President Clinton starts near the 50, the two parties will wind up deep in Republican territory. Clinton's probably one of the most conservative big name Democrats. I honestly do think more things would get done under Sanders than Clinton.