God must be random

[ignoramus]

[Goosebump]

I'll assume your not stupid

touche

http://gizmodo.com/study-people-who-poin...1767969516

[brewer]

god is an angry child with a garden hose and magnifying glass.

[RoadRunner79]

I posted this (along with a bit more stuff) a few days back in the apologetics area of Christian forums and have gotten no intelligent rebuttals yet.  Thought I'd see what you all think.  Maybe pretend you're Christian for a minute and try to tear it down.



1. Properties are either intelligently assigned or randomly assigned.
2. God has properties.
3. God was not assigned these properties by someone else.
4a. Assume God did not assign his own properties to himself.
5a. No one assigned God his properties, so they are not intelligently assigned.
6a. God's properties are random.
4b. Assume God did assign his own properties to himself.
5b. We can reasonably agree that God assigned himself his own properties according to his own preferences.
6bA. Assume God assigned himself his own preferences.
7bA. Before God assigned himself his own preferences, he did not have any preferences.
8bA. God assigned himself his own preferences randomly.
9bA. God assigned himself his own properties according to random preferences.
10bA. God's properties are random.
6bB. Assume God did not assign himself his own preferences.
7bB. God's preferences are not intelligently assigned.
8bB. God's preferences are random.
9bB. Go to 9bA.



http://www.christianforums.com/threads/t...d.7941675/

You seem to assuming that God gained these properties at some point.  
I would also say that there could be non-intelligent, non-random forces, which will dictate the properties of something.

[Nihilist Virus]

I posted this (along with a bit more stuff) a few days back in the apologetics area of Christian forums and have gotten no intelligent rebuttals yet.  Thought I'd see what you all think.  Maybe pretend you're Christian for a minute and try to tear it down.



1. Properties are either intelligently assigned or randomly assigned.
2. God has properties.
3. God was not assigned these properties by someone else.
4a. Assume God did not assign his own properties to himself.
5a. No one assigned God his properties, so they are not intelligently assigned.
6a. God's properties are random.
4b. Assume God did assign his own properties to himself.
5b. We can reasonably agree that God assigned himself his own properties according to his own preferences.
6bA. Assume God assigned himself his own preferences.
7bA. Before God assigned himself his own preferences, he did not have any preferences.
8bA. God assigned himself his own preferences randomly.
9bA. God assigned himself his own properties according to random preferences.
10bA. God's properties are random.
6bB. Assume God did not assign himself his own preferences.
7bB. God's preferences are not intelligently assigned.
8bB. God's preferences are random.
9bB. Go to 9bA.



http://www.christianforums.com/threads/t...d.7941675/

You seem to assuming that God gained these properties at some point.  
I would also say that there could be non-intelligent, non-random forces, which will dictate the properties of something.

Phrasing it like that doesn't give the Christians a win so it is not a real rebuttal.

[Excited Penguin]

In my opinion, that's as good a refutation of God (in all its forms) as any. It's why I'm an absolute atheist. Everything is born of chaos, including the intelligence that would try and make sense of it. There is no special place for anything but randomness in this universe.

[Alex K]

Why is randomly assigned the only alternative to intelligently designed?

In the link I provide the actual thread I posted, and on the first premise that you're referring to I have an asterisk which refers to this at the bottom:

I think I now understand better what you are saying.
Are you familiar with Plato's Euthyphro dialogue? He discusses a somewhat related problem there

"Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

You should read it if you haven't, it is quite readable if you can get a good translation.

[Nihilist Virus]

In the link I provide the actual thread I posted, and on the first premise that you're referring to I have an asterisk which refers to this at the bottom:

I think I now understand better what you are saying.
Are you familiar with Plato's Euthyphro dialogue? He discusses a somewhat related problem there

"Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

You should read it if you haven't, it is quite readable if you can get a good translation.

I'm aware of the basic statement of the dilemma but I didn't know there was a long conversation leading up to it. The dilemma only establishes that God's morality is subjective, arbitrary, or random, so I wanted to take it further and show that God in his entirety is random.

[Nihilist Virus]

In my opinion, that's as good a refutation of God (in all its forms) as any. It's why I'm an absolute atheist. Everything is born of chaos, including the intelligence that would try and make sense of it. There is no special place for anything but randomness in this universe.

Thanks, a lot of people here apparently didn't even read it and think I'm a theist... or so it seems from their vitriolic responses, and I'm not even sure how that is appropriate behavior towards a theist if they are merely discussing the basic nature of their deity and trying to show it can or must exist.

[Godscreated]

I posted this (along with a bit more stuff) a few days back in the apologetics area of Christian forums and have gotten no intelligent rebuttals yet.  Thought I'd see what you all think.  Maybe pretend you're Christian for a minute and try to tear it down.



1. Properties are either intelligently assigned or randomly assigned.
2. God has properties.
3. God was not assigned these properties by someone else.
4a. Assume God did not assign his own properties to himself.
5a. No one assigned God his properties, so they are not intelligently assigned.
6a. God's properties are random.
4b. Assume God did assign his own properties to himself.
5b. We can reasonably agree that God assigned himself his own properties according to his own preferences.
6bA. Assume God assigned himself his own preferences.
7bA. Before God assigned himself his own preferences, he did not have any preferences.
8bA. God assigned himself his own preferences randomly.
9bA. God assigned himself his own properties according to random preferences.
10bA. God's properties are random.
6bB. Assume God did not assign himself his own preferences.
7bB. God's preferences are not intelligently assigned.
8bB. God's preferences are random.
9bB. Go to 9bA.



http://www.christianforums.com/threads/t...d.7941675/

 In your assumptions about God (assumptions lead to randomness or point thought to one's own opinion) you haven't reasonably included God's eternal existence. There has never been a time without Him and this in it's self leaves the human understanding of God in the realm of mystery, those mysteries that God hasn't revealed and want in this age. I suggest you deal with the eternal part of God first.

GC