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Can anyone please refute these verses of Quran (or at least their interpretations)?
#31
RE: Can anyone please refute these verses of Quran (or at least their interpretations)?
One last thing...

If the universe was designed specifically for us, by a competent designer with unlimited resources, how much of the universe would you expect to be instantly deadly to us?

Let's assume he likes us, and doesn't just want to laugh at us.
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#32
RE: Can anyone please refute these verses of Quran (or at least their interpretations)?
(April 24, 2016 at 1:42 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I can't prove God, but the problem is about our standards; to me the universe is an enough of an evidence, to you that evidence that I'm putting forward is not enough; so you see it's kinda of... an infinite cycle? 
You know -just like me- what the end of this discussion is: I'm taking a leap of faith that you don't wanna take, so the conclusion of this debate is that we agree to disagree kinda thing..

I can't prove leprechauns, but to me rainbows are enough evidence. Rainbows appear all of time so leprechauns must exist because they are found near rainbows. And I'd really like that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So, it makes sense for me to believe leprechauns exist. If I didn't believe that they existed then what hope do I have of finding that elusive pot of gold? I wouldn't bother looking for it. I'm just taking a leap of faith in the hope of finding the gold.

If you don't believe leprechauns exist it doesn't matter because I just said I can't prove that they exist. But we both know, really, that there is no pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Rainbows are actually circular, so they have no end, you just can't see the full circle from the ground. Hopefully this explains my contention. So why should Allah be treated different from leprechauns?

The universe exiting doesn't point to any specific deity. Yes, you want to demonstrate the Quran is a reliable source of information - which you are trying to do. I am curious about this Egyptian Hieroglyphs things, so maybe you can expand on that (I think you mentioned it before).

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#33
RE: Can anyone please refute these verses of Quran (or at least their interpretations)?
(April 24, 2016 at 5:06 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(April 24, 2016 at 2:04 am)robvalue Wrote: What would a universe look like that wasn't evidence for God?

A mess, I would say, not an organised chaos, giving the illusion of emptiness and unlawful movement, but in reality, everything is governed by an embedded law, that guaranteed the existence of life, at least for a fraction of the lifespan of the universe.

A better question would have been: What demonstrable and testable evidence do you ave to indicate that this universe needs god to exist. And then once you've shown that give us evidence that it needs to be your god and not, for example, Offler the Crocodile Headed.
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#34
RE: Can anyone please refute these verses of Quran (or at least their interpretations)?
(April 24, 2016 at 7:38 am)robvalue Wrote: People often make a big deal out of life.

What's so special about it? It replicates and can move around a bit more. So what? What's stopping this kind of stupid thing happening on its own?

Clearly nothing is stopping it, since it happened. It's rationalization after the fact to insist it couldn't have happened without some greater influence.

We're pattern spotters. It's how we evolved. So I do understand how people see design everywhere, even though there is no evidence of actual design. Also we want to feel special.

It's not fun. I personally hate it. It's so short, and it can end in so many gruesome ways.
But like a rainfall, that got mixed with the plants on earth; and when gardens shined and earth was decorated with beauty, came the end, leaving the ground dry as if it wasn't ever green.

It's shiny. But that kind of shining, that comes with a stomachache if you think about it; you stand in awe when you see the bright colors of the current moment, but you feel the pain knowing that moments in the future: it will all end.

We want to be special, that's why our ego is being broken every second through life. Even mosquitoes can kill us, even the prettiest human stinks every once and a while, and produces the worst smelling feces right from their own insides..

The repetition of life, like a recursive function, leads me to the exam theory: all of us are being examined, tested, we need to prove something, each is given a different exam paper, each has the universe in front of them to observe, each smell their own poo, each piss, each bleed, each love, each hate, each..

That kinda thing.
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#35
RE: Can anyone please refute these verses of Quran (or at least their interpretations)?
Those Syrians must have been given a pretty harsh exam paper. Most Syrians, they get up for Fajr every morning, do they not, but Allah curses them with this Dunya. And the Christians, Druze and Yazidis of Syria are cursed even more. Millions of them. Yet people want me to believe Allah cares about these people whilst they have their free will taken away from them.

You just admitted it: Life is gruesome.

Our universe does not care about us. It was not designed for humans; life has adapted to live in harsh places. Humans can only survive in very particular places, otherwise they need clothes and shelter. They are not resistant like cockroaches or tardigrades, who can survive such extremes you wouldn't believe.

Supposedly Allah gave humanity this infinite universe. Infinite. We can never explore it all and 99.99999% of it is too dangerous for humans. There is an infinite universe and people want to believe Allah focused on a tiny patch of a small rocky planet (Arabia), orbiting an average star in a small sized galaxy, in an infinite universe?

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