How thick is Matt Slick?

[Nihilist Virus]

I'll just chalk it up to coincidence that he exits the conversation at the exact time he's asked to prove the mathematical idea he is presenting.

[SteveII]

Interesting. I can see why God would have to relate to the universe in a temporal manner. However within his mind, being omniscient does not take successive thoughts to know a truth so there would be no change in the mind of God from one instant to another. He would be omniscient with or without the universe with or without time.

Just asserting it doesn't make it logical.

If God does not even think, then God is no different from a mindless entity.

What conclusion did I assert that you think is illogical? 

That does not follow at all. Thinking is a process we use to arrive at some conclusion or decision. Why would an omniscient being need to use a process to arrive at some conclusion or decision he would already know?

[GrandizerII]

Just asserting it doesn't make it logical.

If God does not even think, then God is no different from a mindless entity.

What conclusion did I assert that you think is illogical? 

That does not follow at all. Thinking is a process we use to arrive at some conclusion or decision. Why would an omniscient being need to use a process to arrive at some conclusion or decision he would already know?

Because that would render it no different from a mindless entity. If you disagree, demonstrate how there is still a difference. Don't just say he just does know without going through some process.

[SteveII]

What conclusion did I assert that you think is illogical? 

That does not follow at all. Thinking is a process we use to arrive at some conclusion or decision. Why would an omniscient being need to use a process to arrive at some conclusion or decision he would already know?

Because that would render it no different from a mindless entity. If you disagree, demonstrate how there is still a difference. Don't just say he just does know without going through some process.

Then your problem seems to be with the definition of omniscience. Omniscience is knowing all possible truths. How could a being who knows all possible truths at any instant be mindless? Just the opposite, it would take an infinite mind to hold all that information. My point is omniscience replaces thinking (a process) to arrive at a conclusion. Anyway, my response to Nihilist Virus was specific because that is what he was arguing. Unless you are discussing a specific doctrinal issue or trying to prove something incorrect about God, the distinction probably does not matter.

[GrandizerII]

Because that would render it no different from a mindless entity. If you disagree, demonstrate how there is still a difference. Don't just say he just does know without going through some process.

Then your problem seems to be with the definition of omniscience. Omniscience is knowing all possible truths. How could a being who knows all possible truths at any instant be mindless? Just the opposite, it would take an infinite mind to hold all that information. My point is omniscience replaces thinking (a process) to arrive at a conclusion. Anyway, my response to Nihilist Virus was specific because that is what he was arguing. Unless you are discussing a specific doctrinal issue or trying to prove something incorrect about God, the distinction probably does not matter.

The way you seem to conceive of knowledge is as mere possession of some required information to solve some problem at hand, and not as an outcome of a process.

So, for you, it seems omniscience is simply being a source of infinite information.

So, again, what distinguishes God (in this case) from a mindless source of infinite information (such as some eternal metaphysical supercomputer)?

If there is no distinction, then what logic do you have that God is a mindful entity and not a mindless one? If being mindful does not require time, then what makes it mindful rather than mindless?

[SteveII]

Then your problem seems to be with the definition of omniscience. Omniscience is knowing all possible truths. How could a being who knows all possible truths at any instant be mindless? Just the opposite, it would take an infinite mind to hold all that information. My point is omniscience replaces thinking (a process) to arrive at a conclusion. Anyway, my response to Nihilist Virus was specific because that is what he was arguing. Unless you are discussing a specific doctrinal issue or trying to prove something incorrect about God, the distinction probably does not matter.

The way you seem to conceive of knowledge is as mere possession of some required information to solve some problem at hand, and not as an outcome of a process.

So, for you, it seems omniscience is simply being a source of infinite information.

So, again, what distinguishes God (in this case) from a mindless source of infinite information (such as some eternal metaphysical supercomputer)?

If there is no distinction, then what logic do you have that God is a mindful entity and not a mindless one? If being mindful does not require time, then what makes it mindful rather than mindless?

Knowledge is a possession. Facts and information. For us, knowledge is an outcome of a process but then it exists as facts and information. We are blank slates (knowledge-wise) when we start off and need a process to start filling the knowledge bucket. Omniscience skips that step. 

God is not a supercomputer because God acts on the information he has. He has a will, he has other characteristics by which he makes decision (justice, mercy, love, etc.).

[GrandizerII]

The way you seem to conceive of knowledge is as mere possession of some required information to solve some problem at hand, and not as an outcome of a process.

So, for you, it seems omniscience is simply being a source of infinite information.

So, again, what distinguishes God (in this case) from a mindless source of infinite information (such as some eternal metaphysical supercomputer)?

If there is no distinction, then what logic do you have that God is a mindful entity and not a mindless one? If being mindful does not require time, then what makes it mindful rather than mindless?

Knowledge is a possession. Facts and information. For us, knowledge is an outcome of a process but then it exists as facts and information. We are blank slates (knowledge-wise) when we start off and need a process to start filling the knowledge bucket. Omniscience skips that step. 

God is not a supercomputer because God acts on the information he has. He has a will, he has other characteristics by which he makes decision (justice, mercy, love, etc.).

But outside of time, how are all these mental qualities (will, knowledge, etc.) enacted in a way that distinguishes a timeless god from a mindless but also timeless entity?

[Mr.wizard]

It's like asking if an omnipresent god can move? An omniscient god does not make decisions because that would imply the he would encounter a dilemma in which he doesn't know what he will choose.

[SteveII]

Knowledge is a possession. Facts and information. For us, knowledge is an outcome of a process but then it exists as facts and information. We are blank slates (knowledge-wise) when we start off and need a process to start filling the knowledge bucket. Omniscience skips that step. 

God is not a supercomputer because God acts on the information he has. He has a will, he has other characteristics by which he makes decision (justice, mercy, love, etc.).

But outside of time, how are all these mental qualities (will, knowledge, etc.) enacted in a way that distinguishes a timeless god from a mindless but also timeless entity?

When God existed timelessly, he also existed changelessly put with omnipotent potential.

[ApeNotKillApe]

But outside of time, how are all these mental qualities (will, knowledge, etc.) enacted in a way that distinguishes a timeless god from a mindless but also timeless entity?

When God existed timelessly, he also existed changelessly put with omnipotent potential.

How do you know that?